John Cena vs Randy Orton?

I'm not sure of your age and how long you've been a wrestling fan so I'm not sure if you've seen many (or any) Scaffold Matches. But if you have, who is the most synonymous with Scaffold Matches? Those who have seen them, or at least know about them, would probably say The Midnight Express. The Midnights are one (two, if you count the separate incarnations of Eaton and Condrey, and Eaton and Lane) of the greatest (heel) tag teams in history, and they have been in more Scaffold Matches than anybody else. About 30 of them.

Their won-loss record? 0-30. Yep, they lost every single one of them. Another pertinent fact is that The Midnights generally had no trouble beating lesser teams, but lost most of their matches with the likes of The Fantastics, The Rock & Roll Express, and The Road Warriors, even while The Midnights were the NWA Tag Champs. They rarely won non-title matches, were pinned often, lost by DQ frequently, and only seemed to win when the Tag Titles were on the line.

The point to that is The Midnight Express were a VERY credible team who's job it was to build up the face teams so that they would have credible teams to feud with. It was very difficult to out-wrestle them, but they could be out-smarted, especially when manager Jim Cornette got involved. So they lost often, and only managed to pull out a win when it REALLY counted (the titles on the line).

It's pretty much the same in the WWE with Cena now, only in reverse. Whereas The Midnight Express lost to several teams the promotions wanted to get over, Vince has several credible main eventers lose to Cena to get (and keep) HIM over.

The WWE has built Orton into a complex monster you can't out-smart, but have to out-wrestle (or in the case of Cena and Batista, out-brawl). Orton is not quite at Triple H's "measuring stick" level, but a win over Orton can elevate a mid-carder pretty quickly. Orton is a very credible main eventer; Cena, Batista, Triple H, whoever, getting a win over Orton looks STRONG.

Cena is a very one-dimensional character. What you see is pretty much what you get, ain't a whole lot of depth to Cena's gimmick. He needs the complex heels like Orton and Edge to provide the "drama", the "odds" that Cena must overcome to prevail and remain a strong Champion, "proving" that good will always triumph over evil in the end.

Pro wrestling at it's most basic level, is a "good vs evil" morality play, and at another level is much like a comic book (or graphic novel, I think they're called these days), and despite the enjoyment we may get watching (or reading about) these entertaining villains, most people don't want them to win, because we don't want the real-life villains to win, either. For the most part, it's only teenaged boys who want the villains to win ALL THE TIME, and that's just as boring as having the hero NEVER lose.

We can look at Cena and Orton as the WWE's version of Batman and The Joker. The Joker has tried a million times to beat Batman. He wins skirmishes here and there but he never wins the war. Yet we keep on being entertained by the NEXT nefarious scheme The Joker comes up with to try to defeat Batman. If The Joker ever does win the war with Batman, the story is done, over with, finished. While Batman is still alive, The Joker continues on.

So it is with Cena and Orton. Orton comes up with his nefarious schemes and we are entertained watching them unfold. Orton wins skirmishes now and then, but he's the villain, he CAN'T ultimately triumph, because villains don't do that in real-life (or in comic books). And that's what it really comes down to: believability. They are already stretching believability to the breaking point with the things Orton gets away with (unpunished); it wouldn't be believable for him to prevail over the strong hero repeatedly (and Cena is a strong "hero" despite what some of the IWC thinks), because in real-life the villains ALWAYS lose in the end.

Your question of "how can you possibly tell a good story and have a good feud when it's so one sided for the face?"

Answer: You can't.

Do I like those numbers you threw out there? No, not as a willing mark for RKO. But knowing that Creative wanted Cena to be Superman through all that time up until Sheamus' push, I don't see those numbers, as horribly lopsided as they are, as "outrageous" on the WWE level.

Speaking of Cena, and I don't hate him either, but that belly to belly suplex he executed last night was absolutely horrible. I don't remember seeing one so sloppy in quite some time. RKO, though....when he tagged Cody in in the beginning of that match, my eyebrows went up for a second. Yes, I was a sucker, hehe. They're trying to portray him as more evil and more "slimy" each week..and I love it.

I think Cena is the kids' champ, and RKO is actually a character who they've allowed to develop, and I enjoy this transition. That's why I can put aside those numbers and Cena's sloppy suplex. I can't focus on what the scripts and numbers that Creative cranks out as wins and losses are, because that'll ruin my overall enjoyment. And also, outside of kayfabe, Cena and RKO are good friends, so that whole feud was probably enjoyable for them, for working together.

i agree. to me, it never was a good fued to begin with. they are both superstars, and everyone knows dat wwe will always have john win the majority of the matches against randy orton, who is the best wrestler that exists, has ever existed, and will ever exist.

IDK Why so many matches were made between them 2? But one thing for sure...I would never want Orton to win! He is such a under-handed arrogent louse!