All this talk about sects of Judaism hating or not considering other sects real... is this really true?

If you have been here in Y/A in the Religion and Spirituality section for any length of time you'll begin to note that answers coming from Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist Jews reflect our similar understanding of the core aspects of dogma (doctrine) of Judaism. The core beliefs in all movements are essentially the same with regard to what each major branch reads in Torah. It is why you find most of us responding here in Yahoo primarily in agreement, rather than disagreement over what Jews believe. We often disagree over how to honor and live what we believe in practice, but we each read the same Torah, and we share a common connection as Klal Yisrael ( the community of Israel, the covenant nation people) There are often wide differences in customs and level of observance of dietary laws or other aspects of what we now call Orthodox observance.

Where we differ primarily is in how we observe the Mitzvot (commandments, obligations of the covenant)

All branches/movements of Judaism have the same Holy Scriptures, the Torah, Neviim and Ketuviim ( Tanakh ).

At the links below you may explore the beliefs of each movement in the United States where you can also explore for yourself the history of the development of each movement

I also prefer the term “movement” rather than “branch” since it is so often the case that Jews have active involvement in and “move” between these different groups or go from one to another with regularity.

This first link is a great place to begin any study of Judaism for the beginner http://www.jewfaq.org/toc.htm

http://ccarnet.org/Articles/index.cfm?id=44&pge_id... Statement of Principles of Reform Judaism explains Reform Judaism and belief in GOD and TORAH

email me if you wish further references or information only 10 links allowed and I have several more!

http://www.jewfaq.org/movement.htm

< explanations of the different movements

http://www.uscj.org/index1.html < Home of Conservative Judaism online

http://ccarnet.org/Articles/index.cfm?id=44&pge_id...

Statement of Principles of Reform Judaism

http://www.ou.org/%3C Orthodox Judaism

https://www.aleph.org/ < Renewal < neo-Hasidism http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/ < beliefs common to all branches from Tanakh

http://www.jrf.org/about-jrf%3C Reconstructionist

http://www.reform.org.il/Eng/Index.asp the Progressive movement in Israel

The New Testament doctrine of belief is anthethical to Judaism and every movement on every continent agrees that the evangelical Hebrew Christians who adopted the name of "Messianic Judaism" and attempt to hijack Jewish identity are NOT a part of the Jewish people or religion of Judaism. This was not a schism from within Judaism but began with campaigns to evangelize to Jews and few are apostate Jews they are of course not speaking for Jews nor do they represent Judaism or the Jewish people.

Jews recognize the right of all people to worship whom or whatever they wish or not..and Torah teaches us that the righteous of all nations merit a place in the world to come.

It isn't up to Jews to give a name to a religion with doctrines of belief that violate Torah's precepts to worship God alone and that forbid human sacrifice or the notion of man as god....but it IS up to all the world's Jews to make it known that such a belief system is NOT Judaism.

shalom

am Yisrael Chai

EDIT: Tseruyah, it is by NO means exclusive to the Reform movement where the Hebrew Christian can be found trying to hijack Jewish identity.

Every single self-proclaimed "Messianic Rabbi" I've encountered had learned how to act and pose as Jewish while studying with Chabad. There are many instances of NT evangelicals whose desire to missionize to Jews is so strong and justified by their faith conviction they believe they aren't doing anything wrong by hiding their belief in Jesus. Sometimes the ploy is posing as a secular Jew who wishes to become religious, other times it is to try to obtain a conversion to Judaism so they can present themselves as a "real Jew" later to their congregations. Their own web site was once hijacked by one who had the chutzpah to alter a page of their online Tanakh to alter a portion of the Rashi commentary altered to actually impose Christian dogma. If you do not believe me..write them and ask them. I was the one who discovered it while reading the commentary on one page, and received a note of thanks from Rabbi Menachem Posner there for calling it to their attention. They said they corrected this and were now alert to this situation and would see to it that such a defacement would not happen again.

edit: Allonyoav brought up a VERY good point. So many times we see the evangelical Hebrew Christian who insists that he is being "hated" or "persecuted" by "OTHER JEWS" claim that it is some kind of infighting or schism and claims that Jews all hate one another or compares this to the Protestant /Catholic schism of Christianity.

That couldn't be further from the truth. The "Messianic" organizations were founded by Christian ministries to Jews and have never had more than a small percentage of apostates among them. Jews didn't start their movement and apostate Jews have never been more than a tiny percentage of them..that makes no difference to the fact their religion is not Judaism in any form.

Offline, my Orthodox friends and relatives, while hoping I become more observant..have never shown me hate, nor have I ever experienced it any time I went to a service at an Orthodox shul. I have relatives in every movmement of Judaism.

I've butted heads with Jews of every movement, and found agreement with Jews of every movement.. but overall I think that it's obvious we share the same core tenets of faith we recite in the Shema

Kabbalah is part of Judaism. There are some groups (and historically the Jewish tradition) was that one only studied Kabbalah AFTER one had already studied the Torah and the Talmud and also had a family (to give one more grounding in "this" world.) However, the Chasidim began the practice of studying the Kabbalah regardless of one's current knowledge level; this has been more or less adopted across groups. But...it is caveat emptor in studying Kabbalah. It is ancient, it has traditionally been secret, it has been hard to get...the result is that there are MANY many books and classes that claim to be Kabbalah which are not Kabbalah at all. And people buy them because they want "Kabbalah." And those buying it don't know what Kabbalah is supposed to be, so they don't know they are being misled. And those who DO know Kabbalah probably are not buying those amazon books, or buying strings or going to the class at the Y. Good luck. You can also find information under the heading of Chassidus.

Each stream of Judaism considers its traditions to be the authentic version of Judaism. When it comes to conversions, the rule of thumb is that Conservatives will accept Orthodox and Conservative conversions, Orthodox will only accept Orthodox conversions as valid. Some Conservative Rabbis will accept Reform conversions only if performed according to all the requirements of a Conservative Beith Din, including circumcision, and Mikveh.

However, once converted by Reform, even Orthodox Rabbis would consider you in a special position and not just a Gentile. You would find Conservatives and Orthodox very welcoming of you in spite of your irregular status.

Jews don't fight. We discuss. We engage. We reach out to each other.

As per you, you should consider joining one or more Geruth groups.

It's not just hype, it's one of the many untruths that outsiders claim about us in order to undermine Judaism.

I've received nothing but respect from Orthodox and Conservative Jews -- if they think poorly of me, they've gone to lengths to hide it.

Judaism requires belief in one G_d, belief that G_d gave the Torah, the Torah we have today is the same as the one given on Mt. Sinai, and requires one to believe and strive to follow all the mitzvos in the Torah. This includes everything from not turning lights on or lighting a fire on the Sabbath to eating only kosher food to wearing tefillin and tzitzis to dressing modesty, etc, etc.

A person is Jewish by being born of a Jewish mother or converting, the conversion requiring acceptance of all the mitzvos, etc, mentioned above.

Conservative Judaism says you can do things like drive on the Sabbath, e.g. operate a combustion engine. This is in direct violation to what is written in the Torah - no lighting fires.

Reform Judaism believes the Torah was created by people, not G_d, and in fact, doesn't even require belief in G_d, only that one is "open to the G_d concept."

So one who "converts" to Reform or Conservative Judaism can't possibly be seen as a sincere convert according to the Laws of the Torah. There was no Reform or Conservative Judaism at Mt. Sinai!

If you're really sincere about converting, then you'll accept the Torah in it's entirety. If not, it's fine... no one says you have to be a Jew. You can be a b'nai Noach who follows the laws given to Noah for everyone... laws from before there were even Jews who received the Torah at Mt. Sinai.

Having different opinions and to argue about does not mean that people hate each other - you will consider this kind of difference even in different communities of the same branch that for instance person A from congregation Z sais to person B from the same congregation that he'd NEVER eat anything in congregation Y as they're "not kosher" but of the same branch as they tend to be a bit more "liberal" even if they aren't officially. There's as well a bit rivalry about getting members as each congregation gets taxes from the state that depends on it's number of members (I don't know if this is the same in the US). As well some people complain about an other branch as they are disappointed (is someone's for example gay it is understandable that he does not like orthodoxy) by it or they are hurt if they for example got order to stay away from a synagogue (I know three Jews that are not allowed any more to enter two different synagogues so they do not like these synagogues as they're hurt by it and complain about from time to time). Sometimes an other branch might be alien to you as it really differes from what you are close and consider as your "home" - so people tend not to like what feels alienated as it can't offer them the "home feeling".

In regard to conversions you have to understand that Orthodox and Conservative Jews might not regard a convert to reform as jewish as they are geared to Halacha who requires the process more accurate and strict (and without having female Rabbis involved).Most Jews you meet personally won't tell you this as it is not appropriate to tell a person who converted he's not jewish - you just don't do that; but you'll discover this all of your life in special occasions: For example it might be that a Rabbi outside of a reform synagogue refuses you to have a Chuppa, it might as well be that people of your future wife's family have problems with your status (as not everyone is reform and tolerant) or that you won'*t get an Alijah to the Tora in others synagogue or that you won't be considered as jewish in Israel. But all this does not mean that people hate you or another movement/branch, it's just different opinions just like you yourself if you're done with converting might find it "strange" if someone buys only cheese with Hechscher or does not take a nice shower on shabbos or brush his hair like everyday or turn on the light, or when someone notices that he forgot his wallet in his jacked while walking to Shul will empty his pocket without touching it and make it fall on the street, whereas you probably won't be that strict when you go reform and might think that person is "crazy" doing this; but you won't hate him for this - and this is the same thing contrary.

Its more like brothers that are constantly arguing. I may have real differences with my brother but if someone outside the family threatens him, they got a fight with me.

Tseruyah does make an excellent point. You should be aware the almost all Orthodox congregations will not recognize a Reform conversion process, so you will not be considered a Jew by them. Dont take it personal but that is what they believe about the process you chose. Conversion to Judaism is mostly about becoming part of a community. If you have found a satisfying spiritual experience in joining a Reform congregation, then who cares what the Orthodox synagogue that you might never visit thinks.

Personally I take the view that Judaism needs all the denominations to survive. If there was no Reform Judaism, our numbers would be somewhere comparable to the Zoroasters. If there was no Orthodox Judaism and their influence on all other denominations, then our religion would look like some new wave fad and would probably resemble Judaism in name only.

I have found it to be true on the internet but not in real life. When I was converting Conservative, I had so many Orthodox on another forum I am in, telling me that I would never be a real Jew if I didn't convert Orthodox, etc. All the Jews I know in real life have been perfectly kind, accepting, and happy to share their knowledge.

As for recognizing conversions, I know the view of conservatives (according to my conservative rabbi and others) is that a reform conversion is valid if it included a course of study in Judaism, a beit din, a hatafat dam brit, and a valid dip in the mikvah. If the reform conversion does not include any one of these things (and some don't!) conservatives will not recognize it. Orthodox will not recognize any conversion except orthodox.

To those who are not Jewish and want to dismiss these things as petty, you do not understand the dynamics of Judaism nor its history. We need to preserve it or we will lose it. It's not pettiness.

True & the unity is only on the surface.

A few years ago in my country I recall that the Orthodox Chief Rabbi refused to sit on the dias at

some symposium because the Reform Rabbi would also sit there. He would do the opening bracha

and the reform Rabbi the closing one. The long & the short is they do not agree & the Cheif Rabbi in

the end refused to even go to the event.

So while it appears they agree, underneath is an entirely different matter.

I have a lot of jewish friends & when we have a luncheon, the one will not eat this & another won't eat that. Then for the orthodox my one friend ordered in kosher food prepared & inspected by the

beit din with a certificate. This food was on a seperate table from the other. Then others will not eat

at a house that does not have two kitchens & two fridges with seperate crockery & cutlery & utensils

it becomes quite a mission.

I looked into all of this before deciding to become a Messianic Israelite/Believer.

I have been to synagogue quite a few times & while I am accepted on the surface, there are always

undercurrents. My real jewish friends accept me for who i am, but as for the rest I am considered a

shiksa. While you are seeming to convert all is well, but if you do not, Watch out.

The Truth will out, thumbs down or not.

Nope. With the years of persecution, Jews tend not to fight over childish things like other peoples religion. In case you didn't realize many of the rules in Judiasm are about you taking account of your own actions. You have enough to worry about with yourself and your family to worry about how strangers pray and such.

After reading some of their post I have learned Orthodox and Conservative converts are not accepted as Jews but are considered righteous.

EDIT:

They are not hated.