Creationists, do you find some of the most close minded in the evolution controversy turn out to be Catholics?

I am a Catholic who believes that God, being all-powerful, is more than able to allow evolution and the Big Bang to have taken place. I don't understand why any self-proclaimed Christian would deny this. I have taught both evolution and the Big Bang in Catholics schools. I never mentioned God during my lessons because, I think, it was a moot point. It was a given that "of course God was responsible for it." I do not believe that Adam and Even actually existed nor do most theologians. I cannot believe that you do. I believe the scientists who have studied such things as their life's work who say the earth is billions of years old and I do not, nor does the Church teach us to, take the bible literally. I cannot believe that any learned Catholic would.

You are more than welcome to contact me and further discuss this. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your beliefs.

> “On the other hand, several Catholics (and theists) who believe in evolution that I have been in contact with have been very arrogant, derogatory and disrespectful in their communications and in their forum answers.”

It’s a shame you saw fit to make broad accusations instead of posting examples of exactly what you’re referring to. How can you expect meaningful comments back when we don’t know whether we’re all talking about the same thing? Creationists here commonly ask questions about evolution (such as "Why do we still have monkeys? or "Why are there no transitional fossils?") that ignore the most basic ideas and evidence about the subject. When they receive answers expressing a certain amount of exasperation over such willful ignorance they interpret it as disrespect, cry that they are being treated unfairly, and then turn around and ask the very same questions again. Such people do not deserve respect, at least with regard to this topic. Whether you typically fall into this category is not something I’ve looked into, but it’s something you should think about. If you’re doing stuff like this it’s not going to make Creationism look any better. And if you’re one of the few Creationists who don’t do this, you might consider having a word with those that do.

> "Please note: The official position of the Catholic Church accepts a creationist view."

I think you meant "evolutionist view". http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm Unlike many of its members, the Catholic Church as an institution seems to have learned something from the incident involving Galileo.

> “This, of course, is in direct conflict with leading proponents of evolution who insist that the process can proceed by only natural means and does not require external supernatural influence.”

No leading proponent of evolution insists the process can only proceed by natural means. They do insist it doesn’t require supernatural influence. Such a position is not in conflict with any Catholic dogma of which I’m aware. By treating these two points (“can only proceed” vs “doesn’t require”) as if they were the same you’ve mischaracterized the positions of both evolutionists and Catholics.

I still have not changed my mind about evolution with the meaning that "most" evolutionists speak of it. They seem to think that because science has noted a similarity between the DNA structure of animals and those of man, that it automatically means that God does not exist. What they do not take into consideration are the scientific and spiritual differences between animals and man. Very few people take the Bible literally as far as dates and time are concerned. I am a realist. I was not there when the earth was formed (nor were you or any scientist) so neither of us can say exactly how it came about. It is hypothesis on both sides based on our personal interpretation of what we see or believe we see. But I do live in the presence of God (and no I can not prove that to you either) and I do experience on a daily basis that presence and interaction so that is something I can honestly say I KNOW rather than I THINK. Just because something is not able to be proved does not make it any the less true.

Once again the small groups of Atheists and Creationists are trying to make us believe that we have to choose between God and humanity's ongoing discovery of God's Creation through Science. This is not true.

Truth cannot contradict Truth. -- Pope Leo XIII

Most Jews and Christians do not take the stories of creation in the Bible literally. We believe the stories included in first 11 chapters of Genesis tell religious truth but not necessarily historical fact.

One of the religious truths is that God created everything and declared all was good.

Catholics can believe in the theories of the big bang or evolution or both or neither.

On August 12, 1950 Pope Pius XII said in his encyclical Humani generis:

The Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter - for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God.

Here is the complete encyclical: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encycli...

And here is the Address of Pope John Paul II to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on October 22, 1996 speaking of the Theory of Evolution: http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm

Here is an interesting article about Pope John Paul II's opinion in the matter: http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm...

The Church supports Science in the discovery of God's creation. At this time, the big bang and evolution are the most logical scientific explanations.

As long as we believe that God started the whole thing, both the Bible and responsible modern science can live in harmony.

Here is a nice list of Christian thinkers in science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thi...

The Clergy Letter Project an open letter endorsing the Theory of Evolution signed by over 10,000 clergy from many different Christian denominations: http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/rel_evol_sun.h...

With love in Christ.

I think you are generalizing Catholics.

I am not a Creationist persay but I am anti-evolution. The case for Creation is much easier to comprehend than is evolution.

Science tells us that the human ability of complex reasoning and it is the cause of our advancement. Science also tells us that organisms lack the ability to reason or are limited to reason for survival.

i.e. a Chimp will poke a stick in a termite mound to get the termites to crawl on it so he can eat it but can not plant a seed and cultivate.

That being said, the whole premise of evolution is out of necessity. i.e. a fish lacks food and starts exploring on land or the body of water evaporates, etc. Or a lizard trying to escape a predator jumps from the trees.

Now, according to Evolution, these acts being performed over and over with the animal supposedly reasoning that it needs to change alters it's DNA. In the case of the Lizard it realized flying (without complex reasoning) was needed to escape and became a bird, the fish (again without complex reasoning) figured it needed to hunt on land and changed it's fins into legs and became a lizard.

The problem I have is humans have complex reasoning whereas, according to science, other organisms do not yet we are expected to believe animals can change their DNA at will.

So to believe evolution we must both reject and accept different parts of science to make it work.

Creationism is easier for me to comprehend then animals thinking they need a new body part and POOF there it is.

Peace be with you

<<<Devout Catholic>>>

No, because I'm not concerned with that. This is not a place to discuss with atheists nor a place to discuss if I came from an ape. How is that religious or spiritual? I believe the Bible. Catholics might be gullible to believe we came from an ape because they typically don't study the Bible and apes and cave men are taught in school. We find dino bones but no cave men bones. What, the dinos ate them all up?

I'm not sure about the answer to your question, however, I wonder why I am not allowed to take communion in a Catholic or Lutheran church even though I'm Christian? I am Methodist and we invite everyone to take communion. It is very strange to me. Any ideas?

Actually, most Catholics are pretty rational when it comes to acknowledging the mountains of evidence in support of evolution...

No controversy, just creationist ignorance. It' like saying there's controversy over where babies come from because nobody has researched storks.

I just saw the first few words in your paragraph "I am a creationist" and concluded that I wouldn't be able to take your question seriously.