Fellow Jews, why do you think that when someone asks a Holocaust-denying question, no Messianics ever respond?

I agree with Maci, I have come to recognize a couple of avatars of self-proclaimed "messianics" to have formerly claimed other religious identity.

I have recalled seeing people who claimed to be "Messianics" appear, however, only to claim that Jews deserved the Holocaust or brought it about because we did not "accept Yeshua". This is a view unfortunately held by a number of adherents to the New Testament, but thank God, not all or even the majority.

That was displayed very thankfully when some of them were posting just such indictments against Jews in Y/A more than once. Two years ago, a poster who repeated these claims in more than one question and answer, that purport to speak for "real Jews" (some were deleted, some were not) inspired many good Christians to speak out against this, too.

http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=200...

I do not post this to call out any user, but to support my observation of the precise reason that evangelcal Hebrew Christians calling themselves "Messianic Jews" do not speak out against Holocaust history revisionism that promotes antisemitism. It is clear evidence of why and only one of many examples still available in Y/A if one searches. Do not take my word for this please but do your own searching.

Note the answer from one "hidden due to low rating"..that tries to turn Deuteronomy completely topsy turvy

"Since unbelieving Jews have refused to accept the New Covenant (Jer. 31:31-36) brought by Jesus (Matt. 26:26-28), they are condemned by God (Deut. 28) and are no longer considered "chosen." (In fact, Deut. 28:62-63 explains why God permitted the Holocaust: because the Jewish people have disobeyed Him by refusing their Messiah.)

*note a common thing to call believing Jews ..meaning Jews who believe in God through Torah and Judaism "unbelieving Jews" ..because the Jews do not believe in a dogma created to negate and replace the eternal covenant of Israel..the Jewish religion.

They do not appear on questions about the Holocaust because for the most part, their web sites ( don't take my word on this..search for yourself please) support such claims that believing Jews who did not abandon Judaism for their new covenant deserved it and all previous persecutions..and that when "Yeshua" returns, Jews who "reject" him "again" will suffer worse.

Any actual discourse on the Holocaust would of course, reveal that they were using the same justifications as many of those misguided Nazis who listened to Hitler's speeches in justifying the Holocaust, and as happened in response to that particular answer and others previously here in Y/A..they begin to loose support from the Christian congregations they depend upon to support their ministries.

Adolf Hitler revisited the Great Passion Play at Oberammergau in 1934, as Chancellor of Germany, to the lusty cheers of the crowd.Eight years later, privately ruminating over the experience at his military headquarters, he spoke glowingly of his view of Oberammergau and its play:

One of our most important tasks will be to save future generations from a similar political fate [to that of Britain] and to maintain forever watchful in them a knowledge of the menace of Jewry. For this reason alone it is vital that the Passion Play be continued at Oberammergau; for never has the menace of Jewry been so convincingly portrayed as in this presentation of what happened in the times of the Romans.There one sees in Pontius Pilate a Roman racially and intellectually so superior, that he stands out like a firm, clean rock in the middle of the whole muck and mire of Jewry If nowadays we do not find the same splendid pride of race which distinguished the Grecian and Roman eras, it is because in the fourth century these Jewish-Christians systematically destroyed all the monuments of these ancient civilizations (Hitler: 457; dated 5 July 1942).

Hitler addressed the world at the passion plays of Oberammergau in 1942

He said: "his blood be on us and our children... [Matt 27:25], maybe

I’m the one who must execute this curse... I do no more than join

what has been done for more than 1,500 years already. Maybe I render

Christianity the best service ever!” (Adolph Hitler)

THAT in my opinion, and based upon the evidence of what I read both at their own web sites and in answers here in Y/A over the past 3 years, reveals to me why they do not speak out against history revisionism of the Holocaust. They cannot find a way to separate speaking out against history revisionism about the Holocaust from their teachings that believing Jews deserve punishment for not accepting belief in Jesus as an incarnation of God ( blasphemy to Torah) and belief that the Jews deserved the holocaust for "rejecting" Jesus, and to speak out that the holocaust really happened could expose their belief that it was justified as it has each time they've declared it.. that is every bit as repugnant to most Gentiles as it is to Jews.

Hitler abused Christian doctrine to justify murder. Messianics claim to be martyrs for their belief in Jesus and "persecuted" by JEWS because they choose to worship Jesus

Jews do not go around telling Christians they're going to hell or evil for worshipping Jesus.

We tell people who call worship of Jesus by any name and call it Judaism they are wrong to do and say that and that such a declaration is an insult to the right of the Jewish people to maintain the laws of Judaism in the Torah that determine who and what is or isn't Judaism.

Jews are obligated by the laws of the Jewish people to speak out to declare that if someone calls worship of or through an incarnate deity or any foreign god concept Judaism that it isn't true.

it's not "persecution" of New Testament adherents when the world's jews say that the New Testament isn't Judaism and never will be Judaism.

Jews have recognized for a long time the antisemitic insults and the method of evangelizing of the Hebrew Christian's who claim to love Jews and Israel and try to hijack the identity of Jews.

Canadian B'nai Brith,

"One of the more alarming trends in antisemitic activity in Canada in 1998 was the growing number of incidents involving messianic organizations posing as "synagogues". These missionizing organizations are in fact evangelical Christian proselytizing groups, whose purpose is specifically to target members of the Jewish community for conversion. They fraudulently represent themselves as Jews, and these so-called synagogues are elaborately disguised Christian churches."

another quote from an article I'll link below:

"Some "Torah-observant Israelite" groups are not nearly as benign. On its website, the Messianic Evangelical New Covenant Church of G-d (NCCG) has a section entitled "Talmudic Judaism: The Dark Truth," in which readers are promised that if "you are a genuine believer in the Lord Yeshua and you obey the Torah, you are marked by heaven as belonging to one of the Twelve Tribes, whether by descent or by adoption. If you are a Torah-observant Christian, you are Israel—and there is no other Israel."

This "Torah-observant site" leaves little doubt as to the ghastly fate that awaits the unconverted Jews, whom the site calls "Talmudic Jews," currently living in Eretz Yisrael. They "will be displaced by HaShem if they have not repented and received the true Messiah, whom they have reviled, persecuted, and killed."

"If they receive Him, they will be forgiven. If they do not, they will be cast out of the land which they are illegally occupying, along with all the other heathens who name other gods," the NCCG website promises its devotees."

Antisemitism has increased as a direct cause of the lies that are presented in their sponsoring churches and in their own churches they want to call synagogues that claim that Jews hate them *for their belief in Jesus*!

I agree with Maci (and I'm interested in her observation that these may not be 'real' "Messianic Jews" anyway) and mama_p. I'm horrified by the notion, from one respondent, that not having had a direct experience of family loss means that one doesn't respond viscerally to the horror of the Holocaust. I expect anyone in Europe or North America, including those who've never met a Jew in their lives, to be appalled and distressed by what happened in Europe from 1933-45. These are events that have shaped the world today.

My answer to this question is purely speculative, but I imagine that the self-styled "Messianic Jews" (who may in any number of cases be Jewish by birth, but not one of whom can claim to be so by conviction) might not be answering Holocaust denial questions for one of two reasons:

The first is that despite their claims to be the "real" Jews, they may have unconsciously internalized the idea to some degree that they are not really Jews, so they tend not to respond viscerally when someone denies the reality of the Holocaust.

The second one is that they may very well believe that the Holocaust would not have happened if Jews had in fact converted to Christianity, and since this view differs fundamentally from the view of those who deny the Holocaust, they regard the whole idea of the Holocaust not occurring as just plain too ludicrous to even respond to.

At any rate, I consider it a waste of time on my part to even enter into dialogue with people who deny the reality of the Holocaust - people with minds that are warped in this manner, I submit, frankly wouldn't recognize historical reality if it hit them with a ten foot pole.

That is actually a very interesting and uniqe topic. As a generall, Jews tried to help each other. But, as you said, the conditions were so bad that acts did happened against each other. Acts like stealing food, or stealing cloths, that could lead to someone else's death (if not by the conditions, then by the Nazis who killed anyone who missed any type of cloth, such as hat). Look into the link i gave you. You have there pictures, video testimonies and more. It should provide you with everything you need.

I have seen them respond--with additional anti-semitic garbage of their own. Interestingly enough, when they were called out on it they mysteriously stopped doing so and began avoiding questions of that sort altogether. A few of them still can't resist, though, and occasionally an answer will pop up showing their true nature.

At this point I wonder if the majority of YA Messianics are even "real" Messianics. Actually, I don't wonder. I think that they are simply trolls who know that this is a quick way to get under the skin of the Jews and others in YA. Too bad for them people are catching on.

Maci makes a very good point about the kind of responses given by Messianics.

It seems to me that they are quite happy to pretend to be Jews when it suits them.

It s about high time the world knows about the White Holocaust in Russia where 10s of millions were killed.

We should be talking about other Holocausts/genocides as well. But the Russian one was one of the most horrific in history.

Black Rabbit is a troll and just reading his questions sickens me. I think I stopped answering.

Messianics are rare btw. If you consider how rare jews are relative to Christians, that's how rare messianics are to Jews :)

my theory is that half of all holocaust denial questions come from muslims, and the other half come from the neo-nazi and white supremacist alt accounts of the messies.

black rabbit is merely not clever enough to maintain alts.

but as the creationists say, it's only a theory.

Because the world is gearing up for another massive attempt at exterminating the Jews.

These false Jews, these Christians in Jewish dressing, they are going to be forced to choose whether they will stand with the REAL Jews or not.

The prophecy in the Oral Torah says that when God gives them this choice, they will turn and run like cowards and God will laugh at them and then destroy them.

That collection which uses the stormfront hatesite as a source would find it a wee bit tricky, wouldn't they?