Are the criminals trying to shame us so we won't educate people on how to protect themselves from rape?

"Isn't this exactly what you would expect a rapist to say? I.E.: don't educate women on how to protect themselves; just ask the criminals to "play nice", and they will, because they aren't really criminals, they are just confused."

No. I don't expect a rapist to say that. You know what I expect a rapist to say? That "The B**ch had it coming," "She asked for it," "Did you see what she was wearing? She wanted it," "she shouldn't have been drunk and passed out at a party, what did she expect?"

THAT'S what I expect rapists to say. Why? Because that's EXACTLY what they do say. They don't go around moaning "OH NOES! Please don't educate women! Who will I rape if all the women know not to put themselves in situations that makes them easy prey?" Rapists can and do find victims anytime of the day, wearing anything from bikinis to nuns robes.

So...how do you go about "educating" women to not put themselves in a situation where they can be raped?

Please, educate us now....

But, wait. Would your syllabus change if it was pointed out that, according to interviews with convicted rapists, they tend to target very specific women, a "type," as it were: They target women who don't make eye contact, women who look down at the ground when they they walk rather than look around at their surroundings, women who are very preoccupied, whether with a blackberry, phone, or children...in fact, a woman out with a young child is a perfect target because they are less likely to have noticed a rapist, and will be more compliant if you threaten her child's life. Rapists look for women with ponytails, because they help control the woman better. They look for women in loose fitting clothes that are easy to remove, like sweats. They usually look for victims very early in morning.

So...what's your advice, again?

As an aside, Vengeance, how are women "not being responsible adults"....in general?

Wyett--Sure, most rapists are sociopaths and liars, but you seem to be missing one crucial element of all this....this data wasn't gathered from a handful of rapists that got together before the interviews and colluded on what to say....HUNDREDS of rapists from all over the place were interviewed and enough of them gave similar enough answers to be able to give a general idea of what rapists look for. Did you REALLY think that a bunch of them just randomly lied and by some weird coincidence a lot of them came up with similar answers? Really? Or did you really just not think about it much at all?

As for all these women you know who were raped....give me a break. Just because you know a few women who fit that scenario, do you really think that means even MOST rape victims were out in the ghetto looking for coke, blowing strangers in the alleyway and hanging out in meth soaked biker bars? Again, I have to ask....REALLY?! Just because the kind of girls you know don't fall into the category of the random woman just minding her own business, doesn't mean most don't.

It's true, of course, that the kind of rapists that look for the type of victim I described are SERIAL, CAREER rapists. Maybe I didn't make that clear. The kind of rapist your talking about, are, as you said, the kind of guy that has no morals and will take an opportunity when they see it. Of course, anyone who would do that, and has so obviously a complete disregard for other people is really no LESS a sociopath than the rapist who stalks women, looking for different sorts of opportunities. Just to be clear.

Oh, BTW WYETT, if your advice to women then, on "How To Not Get Raped" is more or less "Don't hang out and get plastered in drug fueled biker bars," and "Don't head out to the ghetto at 2 am looking for coke," and "don't blow three guys in an alleyway and expect them to be 'honorable' when you've had enough".....then, yeah, we got it. We'll be SURE not to do any of that. Thanks for the advice, I'm glad you told me before we all went out and did any of that.... Seriously, dude, what kind of people do you hang out with? I'm flabbergasted...

edit @ Wyett--This is turning into a really, really long post, but I just can't help it....

What do you mean "average?" Are you kidding? Blowing three guys in an alley way is "average?" By WHOSE standards? That's not "average" for the people I know. That's not even "average" for most hookers....

And, no, sorry, it's not the "average" girl that walks into the ghetto at 2am to score drugs. That is what is known as a DRUG ADDICT. Your merely "recreational" user could have waited until daylight, at least (that was sarcasm, BTW).

As for it being the "average" thing to do to get completely drunk in a meth-soaked biker bar...I don't know much about biker bars, but I'm pretty sure the "average" patron of those establishments is coming in after work, ordering mojitoes and playing bar trivia...I'm pretty sure the "average" patrons are criminals and meth addicts. No, really.

As for a "significant" amount of rape victims falling into this category....do you have "Significant" proof of that? I'm going to need more than assumptions and the unfortunate happenstances of your questionable acquaintances.

Regarding my "speaking for other women"...I was being sarcastic. You didn't pick that up? Oh well, I guess sarcasm doesn't translate well through the computer...the point I was trying to make is that actually VERY FEW women would ever even THINK to put themselves in those situations. I hate to break it to you, but the "average" woman does not hang out in biker bars, or try to score coke in the worst parts of town at 2am, or blow three guys in an alley to get drugs. They are far from the average. Again, I was being sarcastic earlier, implying that MOST women would never think to do that in the first place...it's a non-issue for the average woman.

edit again....

Oh, right....not an alleyway (actually, I'm not sure where I got that from....I guess it just seems like an alleyway is the only place for that to happen ; )....a party a drug dealer invited her to. Yeah, that's a lot different (again, sarcasm).

No, I seriously doubt it's that I'm "older." I probably am older than you, but I'm still in my (late) twenties. And I've done my share of clubbing and going to parties....but NO (a VERY emphatic "no")--I've NEVER been to a party where girls just go to blowing three guys in the middle of it. But then, I've never gone to parties "hosted" by drug dealers, either. Sorry, that's not something the "average" person does, anymore than any of the other things you've mentioned. Again, I guess it all depends on the class of people you hang out with. We can just agree to disagree, because you seem to think that "normal" behavior is the kind of behavior I consider pathological and aberrant. *I* know normal girls...they don't think bikers are "hot," they don't blow three guys at a drug dealer's party, and they don't go out in the middle of the night to score coke. Seriously, it's not something "normal" people do. I realize YOU think it's normal, because, for whatever reason, you seem to hang out with drug addicts and self destructive sufferers of histrionic disorder...(no offense to you intended, I'm only going by the limited information you are giving me...). So, to you that behavior seem normal, because it's what you know. I assure you, it's NOT normal. But, there's no point in going on with this. We are at an empasse, we simply will not agree.

What I DO believe can be resolved is your insistence that most rapes occur because of this type of behavior. I've yet to see any actual evidence for this. If you have some, then please provide it now, or else I will just have to assume that you are basing this on your own assumptions, because of your own extraordinary cast of acquaintances who are abnormally self destructive, and not on any genuine statistical analysis. Please keep in mind that just because YOU'VE observed something, it does not make it a universal truth. Further analysis, beyond your own limited experiences, is always in order...

Edit...probably for the last time....

So, to sum up your last and hopefully final post, you HAVE no proof other than what you've heard from a few people here and there....a few people who are obviously drug addicts and self-destructive thrill seekers. BTW, stating the obvious is not the same as calling someone a "degenerate." that was your word, not mine. I don't believe drug addicts and people with obvious mental health issues, like the ones you describe are "degenerates," I think they are people who need help, and they sure as hell don't deserve to be raped, any more than anyone else does. So, keep YOUR words out of my mouth.

Also, you'll note that I've only ever said that the above mentioned behavior is NOT NORMAL. I never made any assumptions, I only made common sense observations.

My ONLY point, ever, was to suggest that sort of deviant (not "degenerate," there's a difference and if you aren't aware of the difference, look it up) behavior is abnormal, so to suggest to "most" women that the best way not to get raped is not get really drunk in meth soaked biker bar...etc. then your wasting your breath. Most women aren't going to do that anymore than they're going to don a super hero cape and go after known rapists in hand to hand combat.

Wives and daughters are still being stoned or caned or whipped in certain cultures for becoming pregnant because of husband allowed rape by cronies buddies. They are still wearing burkas! These will continue whether abortion continues or ceases. Education is at no lack as to birth control and information on all methods is at fingertip reach. Let's deal with the real reason why the deadly beatings and burkas separately from birth control and abortion. As men or women we have full right unto our own bodies but not unto another's body. Oops, my mistake...just found out that suicide is illegal as is assisted self euthanasia. These are people issues and not women's issues. All inequity between men and women or women and men is a people problem and needs across the board correction and support. Me! :- )

The problem with advising women on how to behave so as not to get raped is that doing so depends on a lot of false assumptions; that most rape victims are dressed as hookers, drunk off their butt, and walking home alone at 3am. Not really the case, though, is it?

And the problem with telling women to not do this or that, and you'll lessen your chance of rape is that eventually, women won't be able to leave the house unless they are covered with a burka and accompanied by a male relative. And the problem THERE is that even women who adhere to those rules are raped. So where does it end?

Another problem is that those insane psychos don't target women who are "easy prey," or are dressed provocatively. Those women don't do it for them. They generally hate women, and they want to degrade them, so they choose women of a certain type, women who look like they are of a certain class and lifestyle, mothers.

The other kind of rapist is just a degenerate and an opportunist, but still a "career rapist;" yes, there may be some opportunity in a very drunk girl, but there is also opportunity in a woman who is on her way to work early in the morning, and is preoccupied with strapping a small child into a car seat.

And yet another kind is the sort that commit acquaintance rape. Should we just start going with chaperones, now?

In no rape case victim is neither responsible nor to be blamed.Only rapists must be blamed and punished. Being more CAREFUL is a more accurate word but it's another issue and irrelevant for justice. The vast majority of convicted rapists do not believe they did something awful or committed to rape. In my country, they say " In any country innocent people must be as brave as criminals", if this makes sense. They blame victim for favour of victim? Nope, they just hate women, particularly outgoing, independent, modern women, and try to lessen and reduce of rape finding some utterly silly, illogical and self-rightous excuses for rapists. Impossible to take them seriously, naturally.

What the first answerer said.

But apart from that even, most times rape happens with someone they know.

So if she knows and trusts someone, there's no way to really prevent that, unless women start thinking of all men we know or meet as possible rapists... which is totally unreasonable, sexist and something I've seen men hate feminists for.

The problem is that people usually offer advice to avoid stranger rape. No offense, but the vast majority of women are smart enough to avoid walking in a dark alley at 3 am in a tube top and miniskirt. After all, stranger rape makes up a tiny percentage of rapes, so obviously most of us don't need advice to guard us from that. There's no advice to guard women from being forced to room with a male roommate because it's cheaper than living alone and finding themselves letting their guard down and then getting assaulted by him. They can't tell a teenage girl to tell her mother to stop bringing guys home who pretend to be father figures just so they can force themselves more easily onto the girl. They don't tell them to avoid being nice to male acquaintances because they may take it as an invitation for sex and follow them to their car and rape them. Most women are better at protecting themselves than some men seem to think, but we're almost always going to be more physically vulnerable than men; which the poster below seems to mistake for brains.

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"No, it's a denial of the reality that women are expensive pets who need to be kept on a leash because they do not have the brains to survive in a harsh world."

I hope you guys remember this statement the next time a guy gets raped, abused or violently beaten and wonder why women find it hard to find sympathy. You bring a large part of this attitude onto yourselves.

I don't think that the feminists who react that way are rapists. The crime that they enable (even though most of them probably wouldn't commit it themselves) is false accusations, not rape -- although some feminists may discount the importance of helping male abuse victims.

They probably really do think that you're blaming the victim, because they tend to be highly suspicious of anyone who is either a man or disagrees with them.

Well, I think there is a fine line between suggesting ways to be safer vs suggesting that you deserved to be raped because you werent as safe as you could have been.

I mean, some people would say that if a woman isnt covered from head to toe that its her fault she got raped because she didnt protect herself by covering head to toe.

THAT is wrong. Even if the person (any gender can be raped or be a rapist) wasnt as safe as they could have been, no one deserves to be raped. Its true, I do lock my car to avoid it getting broke into, and I get the sentiment. But you have got to be very careful you dont suggest that someone deserved to be raped because they were alone or whatever else.

I dont care what you do or dont do, NO one deserves to be raped.

Yeah, I'm sure rapists are really broken hearted that feminists want to prevent rapists from raping by blaming rapists rather than controlling the every movement of women on some false premise that all rapes are because she was dressed like a hooker, drunk, in the middle of an alley, when a scary black man whom she'd never met jumped her.

Feminists want people to get ANGRY. They want everyone to see that rape isn't inevitable, it just doesn't "happen" because there are women around and men too. It happens because someone makes a conscious decision to grievously violate another person's bodily autonomy. They want people to stop poo-pooing women, telling women what to do, telling women not to have fun, telling women to live in fear. They want women to live without the terrorism -- yes, terrorism -- that is rape controlling their lives.

They want people to wake the hell up and stop trying to "prevent" rape by locking up innocent women in the house -- which doesn't prevent rape at all (since most rapes are not stranger rape in public) -- and start locking up RAPISTS. Feminists want everyone to take rape seriously, and recognize rapists for what they are: not normal men tempted by the unholy sight of uncovered female flesh, but criminals that use sex to do absolutely disgusting violence. Criminals that are danger to all of society. We want people to take women's safety seriously. Instead of restricting the movements of women, we ought to restrict the movements of the people that terrorize them: rapists.

Maybe. I think what you've described is a bunch of feeble-minded, degenerates who have no place saying or commenting about anything involving crime. Yes, women should be encouraged to take more safety precautions, and to never, ever, ever, ever, ever trust anyone.

This man or woman, @EMP, asked the same question quite a few times and I think my answer answer to him/her sums up my feelings on the subject..

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Av2Df...

@EDIT: I apologize for not answering fully last night, I was way too tired.

You bring up very valid points but the women on this site are too dogmatic on this subject to let any information sink in.. Rapist sociopaths are LIARS. Ever read any books on the subject? Take any courses in college? The first thing experts will tell you is that these people lie through their teeth and only THEY really know what THEY are thinking.. any research done on these people is clearly speculation. I don't know why so many women on here are saying "when rapists are interviewed they say..." or act they have some insight into these people's minds, because they have absolutely NONE. Psychiatrists who have personally psychoanalyzed them barely have insight into their thinking patterns, so why would you?

Next, most rapes aren't committed by the scheming psychopaths with the high IQ's. Women seem to think rapists are always these skilled, deceptive men but in reality those like Ted Bundy are 1 in 1,000,000.. What's MORE likely is that a woman will be raped by a morally flexible man she just refuses to see the danger in. I've known women who were raped and I've been in places where women were raped. And each scenario featured lack of self control and thinking on the woman's part... partying in bars where meth addicts and biker gangs were known to hang out, walking through the ghetto at 2 AM looking for a guy to buy coke from dressed in tight mini-skirts, blowing three strangers who forced themselves upon her when she decided to stop (at a party that a drug dealer invited her to). I mean COME ON.. seriously. That's a far cry from a woman just minding her own business..

@WENDY -- Wow, I'm sorry your flabbergasted.. but what I said makes perfect sense, and I'm not just talking about a "couple women" who fit this scenario. A SIGNIFICANT (big word there) portion of women who are raped put themselves in 'palm to forehead' scenarios.. (now SIGNIFICANT is a little different then saying ALL).

The types of people I hang out with are pretty average and the girls making these judgement calls are just as average. So no, I don't think all of you really do get it when I say "you shouldn't Tequila yourself into a coma in a room full of strange guys"..

Like I said before, I'm not even going to get into the rapist debate. Because these SERIAL RAPISTS that you speak of are in the small minority. The types of men women choose to associate with and the fact that women will want to have "FUN" over using common sense is the reason quite a few of them get raped.

I personally don't have to worry about getting raped, I can hang out with and engage in whatever I please.. so I'm not exactly giving you "advice". I don't care what you do, I just don't want you to blame other people for your problems.

BTW, "we got it"... what do you speak for all women? You've been chosen to assure all the stupid men that "ALL" women understand this. Because obviously not all of you do.

@@WENDY -- spend a lot of time with hookers, huh? (that was meant to be humorous). But you keep giving examples I never gave. I never said "blowing three guys in an alley way" and yes I happened to know quite a few women who were "raped" under a scenario just like that (except I don't know where the hell you are getting alley way from?). You telling me there aren't women out there who do those sorts of things at parties? If you say "no" then you are either very old or you haven't been out of the house much.. And when I call those women "average" I'm saying they are from good neighborhoods, good households, and don't have a mental disease apart from stupidity. Feminists always deny that there are plenty of women who are just stupid, plain and simple. And do things like.. go to bars where meth addicts frequent because "biker dudes are like totally hawt lololoz <3". I'm not even trying to be humorous now.. THOSE types of women are who I (and I'm pretty sure the asker are referring to). And please don't tell me that they're "rare".. And THOSE types of women are the ones that most bad things happen to.

@@@WENDY: what the hell makes you think I'm judging SOULY based on my acquaintances? And there you go judging by your own experiences. Just because YOU never saw that happen DOESN'T mean it never occurs. Who are you to say that its rare? You do the same things you accuse me of doing which is another feminist trait. Read the email I sent.. because I don't want to make this answer any longer.

BTW you've also just called these rape victims degenerates, which just made my point ;)