Why does water not work on dogs and what are your methods for correction of abused dogs?

I have to agree 100% with Ms Manners!

*Knock on wood*.. I have never HAD fights with my rescues and/or personal dogs to this date! They are socialized via crates, i have gates in my home... and I had my back lg yard cut in half with a 6' chain link fence so that they can get to know each other through the fence. The dogs are slowly introduced with safety measures in place. The way my place is set up I can shuffle new dogs hither and yon without worries of any nose to nose contact until I see the posturing that tells me they are relaxing with each other. My dogs are pretty used to the MO of new dogs coming in.

This may sound anal, but in ALL my dog handling years... I have never gotten into the habit of feeding the dogs in the same room. Some are crated, while others are separated with gates. It they don't ever get started snipping at each other over food or territorial issues... it just seems to be a non-issue. In the beginning it's a bit of a juggling act, but once everyone knows the routine...it's business as usual.

You have to do a lot of "body and mind reading" of an abused dog. I try not to pressure them in the beginning...or make them feel cornered. I use bait...and do a lot of finger snapping and gentle herding until the dog gets the message of where I want them to go...or which direction. As a rule...once they get the idea that a crate is not abusive...they crate break easily (especially if they are always fed in the crate). My first thing to teach an abused dog is to come to me. Gently ...quietly and using bait rewards you can get them coming along quite well with patience. If a dog is prone to completely "shutting down" under the slightest pressure that takes a completely different approach. If you present a shy dog with a solid routine in every day handling they quickly start to pick up on what's expected of them. It helps if you can have them buddy up with one of your mellow dogs. Then it's a lot of follow the leader which is fine.

The times I have used water...it's worked fine too. I have used water occasionally, but never on an abused dog. I was training my newest dog NOT to think that an open gate means you "go out" the open gate. She was solid on not bolting out the house doors when left open... so.. I then move that training to the outer gates. I left a gate standing open on purpose...and stepped out to water. I told her to STAY and walked out. I was keeping an eagles eye on the gate as I had a hunch the youngster would test this new boundary. She peeked out at me...and I pretended not to see her. The INSTANT she stuck a paw outside that gate I turned the garden hose to her (and didn't say one word). It was a rather healthy blast of water...and a shocking cold reminder that she had been told to STAY. She now understands that an open gate does not mean it's an invitation to go out it. I don't leave my gates open ever...but on the outside chance someone came over and that opportunity presented itself.. I want my dogs to understand that leaving the yard is a no-no unless they are on a leash.

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Water wouldn't work for my dogs as they love water and beg to be sprayed by the garden hose. A spritz from a spray bottle would never work for them. Each dog is different and this method would never work for my dogs.

A dog's past, whether abused or not, makes no difference as to how it should be trained. It's the dog's temperament that is most important. Dog's with good temperaments, which is determined strictly by genetics not environment, are resilient and recover quite easily from past abuse/neglect. If a dog is soft and has a weak temperament then of course something like a firm "no" should be a good enough correction. A stronger/harder dog will need something firmer, which could mean a leash correction with a plain buckle collar or maybe even a prong.

I am a veterinarian and a foster for a local organization. I have never had more than one growl happen between any of the dogs that have come through. You seem to put a lot of emphasis on how badly these foster dogs have had it. You're right, they have. However, if your mental picture you see every time you look at them is "oh, poooooor little Fluffy, you've been soooooooo mistreated" - then you're going to unknowingly act out those feelings. Then one of the dogs picks up on the imbalance, a more dominant dogs clues in, and BOOM there you go, those two dogs are fighting. When you bring in the fosters, treat every single one just like your own dogs. Don't creep slowly or speak softly or think there's magic to the new 'abused' dog. There has never been a need here for any sort of squirting of water. The dogs know that there job is to obey me, and their focus is too much on that to allow time to invent a reason to fight each other. It is one of the most difficult things I deal with in either of my professional worlds, to convince people to stop seeing their formerly abused neglected dog as a dog who still thinks it is abused and neglected. As long as you do that, you will continue to elicit behavioral problems in the new ones as well as your old 'pack'. The dog is glad to be gone from the living hell they had and they don't want you triggering the old behaviors either! It's been my experience that these foster dogs are the most responsive, most willing to learn all the new stuff. I almost never find it difficult to 'retrain' them into respectable citizens. Oh boy! Sit roll over speak and go fetch? Just for verbal praise?! You betcha!

Why are you allowing the dogs to get to the point of fighting?

And what does "abuse" have to do with it?

I have never needed to use water to break up two dogs, because I condition them to accept each other before I ever leave them alone together. I control their interactions.

If I had two dogs who were likely to fight after being properly introduced, they would be separated.

First of all, the best way to get your dogs to stop fighting... is to stop it before it happens. If you see one of the dog's ears perk up or they begin to growl, quickly poke them in the neck (NOT hard) and make a loud noise. This will "snap them out of it". If this doesn't work you need to remove the dog from the area. You also need to let your dog know that YOU as the ALPHA will not tolerate fighting. You need to be calm-assertive. Spraying your dogs won't keep this from happening. You need to stop them before it even begins, so they understand why they are being punished (and I'm not talking about when they are eating food or sleeping come up to them and poke them, I mean when they begin growling and are starting to get aggressive).

Now, to get your dogs to stop fighting you need to really to watch them when they are together. Be prepared to step in between them when they start getting aggressive. You need to assert yourself and let them know you don't like it when they fight. Eventually, if you keep up the training, they will learn.

If your dog was abused previously and thus, gets aggressive with other dogs you need to get him socialized. This means letting him meet other dogs and people. If your dog was abused, then it's probably safe to assume he never met other dogs. So, when he sees another dog, he immediately goes on the defensive because, hey, he has no idea what this other guy is going to do! I recommend going to a dog park or finding a neighbor with a CALM dog (who will not be very excitable or respond aggressively either, for obvious reasons).

Hopefully this helps you out!

Are you asking for good methods of correction for a dog who is fearful because it has been abused?

Simple. Verbal corrections.

For softer dogs a well placed, firm "no" is all you need.

Instead of a correction, I use substitutions and praise them for doing the right thing - ignore accidents, and praise when they go in the right place.

For a long time Tiffany laid down, belly up every time we even glanced at her. The "correction" was not petting her until she sat. Btw, we never petted her on the top of her head - only on the chest and under the chin.

patience and responding (though FAR more gently) to a dog as a DOG would respond to correct it. watch a mother dog teach a pup how not to bite her... or "thats ENOUGH of your silliness"... works for dogs of ALL ages. kep in mind.. you are the alpha of their new pack... they respond how you do.

my energy,they know who the boss is , water does work ,sound will work ,in the middle of a fight you gotta be one tuff SOB,

cheers chris

what my dad does to teach my dog a lesson is tie them up and squirt them with water ( with hose ) untill they calm down or sperate them