Christians or any believer: I don't understand your zeal?

This is alot of questions to address.. so I can only touch on each briefly... (plus I have a feeling that many people don't take the time to read my longer answers and besides.. Y!As cuts you off at a certain point)

By "choose" we mean not that one literally says.."I'd like Hell for eternity please" but that the accumulative affect of all their choices in life results in going to hell. So in a way they "chose" it by their decisions, their priorities, whom they served, and in part by their actions while here on Earth.

Basically the philosophical concept is this... 'God, respecting Freewill, simply gives us exactly what we want and chose in the end. If we chose him.. he gives us himself. If we chose 'other' - he gives us that.

But here's the RUB... God is believed to be the source of all love, justice, mercy, compassion, etc. He is essentially not only the source..but the very definition. So if we don't choose him.. we are essentially rejecting all those things. What is then left, if not true love, true justice, true mercy?

A lot of terrible icky stuff like: false love, selfishness, self-righteousness, arrogance, judgementalness, unforgiveness.

We call that place "Hell" because removed from God, we assume that nothing good can exist.

So one way of looking at it is... God being loving.. gives us what we want. Him or "Other" -- it just so happens that the "other" sucks really really bad. - Is that HIS fault? NO, because he is respecting our wishes.

In fact, if you think about it.. he gives us 70-80 years, on average, to sort things out. He doesn't expect a snap decision..but gives us TIME. But unfortunately, like all decisions.. at some point you have to decide. And so that's where final judgement comes in. Where God judges what you loved most and gives you over to that... completely. For some that will be HIM. For others.. it will be something other then him. -- we call that 2nd one, HELL.

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As for eternity.....

The severity of a Crime is not based solely on what is done.. if so, you are correct.. our sins would only merit temporary sentences in hell. After that.. God could ask us if we chose him and let us out.

NO, the TRUE measure of a crime is not what but WHO. As in who is offended.

Kill a citizen and you are bad. Kill a police officer = worse.

Kill the President and it may very well be an act of WAR!

This is how justice works.

Fast forward to how bad a crime against an INFINITE God is?

If he is infinite.. then the crime against him.. even the smallest infraction is also infinite. We can't set limits on it.

If the worse a human being can give another as punishment is taking their life. Then what is the worse punishment God can give a soul which is eternal? -- eternity, Right?

So while we can philosophically argue that God doesn't punish us.. we can ALSO see how justice kind of demands it... and why we need a savior to be able to atone for an infinite offense, or our MANY infinite offenses.

What type of being could take on each person's infinite offenses and pay them back to satisfy the requiremnts of justice? -- Wouldn't it also take an infinite being?

Who is the only infinite being we believe in? No Zeus, but God. So God had to send himself to take our punishment, or else nothing else COULD.

So why 3 days then? -- Christ could have done it instantly.. right? -- SURE. But 3 days is what is required by Jewish custom, was prophesized in the OT and satisfies our Human need to believe that he truly died and didn't merely "sleep"

So the 3 days is for OUR sake.. not his. Most of what is done is for OUR sake, not God's.

Worshipping him is for our sake, not his. He doesn't need it..but we need something perfect to focus on and seek..what better then HIM?

So even worship is for our sake.. not his.

I know this doesn't answer it all.. but hopefully it makes you question some assumptions you may have and lead you to more questions.. and ultimately, some sort of faith.

Don't look for non-expert answers to your philosophical questions. Seek Philosophers and Theologians for your philosophical and theological questions. It only makes sense to seek experts and not average Christians for answers.

RIGHT?

God Bless and Shalom! (peace in Hebrew)

What you don't understand is this:

We are all SINNERS. We all deserve to go to hell. The Bible tells us that no one is good, not one of us. Only God is good. So, if you are saying you lead a "good" life, by whose standards? Yours? We cannot define what is good or what is evil. God has already defined it.

God gives us ALL a way out of hell. He could have left us all to die in our sins, but He loves us, and had mercy on us. He also gave us a choice. Choose Jesus and have eternal life. Or, deny Jesus and die in your sins. Jesus is the ONLY way to be washed clean of your sins. That is why there is no other way.

And for you to say "It was only three days." What does it matter how long it took for Him to do it?? He did it! He came back from the dead to also demonstrate His power and His glory. and you are like, "meh"

I'm in awe of Jesus and what He has done for me. I was in the pit of despair and He picked me up and carried me out! ETERNAL LIFE. This is our reward for choosing Jesus. The Bible makes it very very clear. You CHOOSE where you go! ONLY JESUS GIVES THE SAVING GRACE WE NEED!!

Edit: I guess I need to add one more thing, since there are "pastors" on here preaching the wrong thing! There is indeed hellfire! Jesus spoke of it many times in His teachings! If you say there is not, then you are calling Jesus a liar! Please read the Book of Matthew 13:30-51;18:7-9; Mark 9:43-48; Revelation 20:11-15. Now, tell me there is no such thing as hellfire. You are teaching a false doctrine! If there is no hell, then what did Jesus come to SAVE us from? Sleep in the grave?? Really? You people who say you are from God, yet deny the power of Jesus Christ in His resurrection from the dead and deny His very words that say there is, indeed a hell and it is eternal punishment, need to go back and READ THE WORD! You are leading people astray with your lies, and you will be held accountable for that!

First, I'm happy that you are searching for truth. I pray that in the midst of all the responses that will try to deter you from the knowledge of Christ, the Holy Spirit meets you in an incredible way (Matthew 6:33).

Isaiah 64:6 states that all of our righteous acts ("good living") are as filthy rags. What we call "good living" and what God calls "good living" are different.

Three days may seem like a short time, however Jesus lived on the earth for 33 years preaching and teaching on the kingdom of God and our need for salvation. Before He was born on earth, there was prophecy of His coming for thousands of years through the prophets of the Old Testament.

Through one man sin came into the world (Adam) and through one man we were reconciled to God once again (Jesus). The cost of sin was not only 3 days in Hades but it was the atoning sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. It was by His blood that our sins were forgiven. As fully God, death could not hold Jesus in its clutches. That would mean that death would be the final answer. However, Jesus will always be victorious over death and over satan. Death is a result of sin coming into the world. We were never meant to die but to be in constant fellowship with God. Because of sin we not only have a physical death but a spiritual death as well.

John 3:16-17 is very important because it says that God LOVED the world so much that he gave He gave His only begotten Son so that we could be saved and not condemned. I know that we immediately question why would God send people to a place that was never intended for them originally but we see that He makes a way for them not to go to hell and has done everything He could to give them a choice as to where they spend eternity. God knows that not everyone will choose salvation even if the price was already paid for them. Matthew 22:14 states that many are called but few are chosen.

Jesus tarries so that all nations may hear the gospel. If someone rebels or refuses his open invitation to salvation, then their choice will be honored. God can not allow sin into Heaven because He is 1) holy and 2) just. I don't not take any joy knowing that any member of my family should spend eternity in hell and rest on God's promise of me and my household being saved. But salvation is a choice that every person shall either accept or reject. Once you take your last breath, the decision you made on earth will be the determination of where you spend eternity.

I guess you need to reconsider what "good" really means. Good compared to what? Our fellow man? If so, that's not good enough. I've never met a sinless person. You need to be perfect by God's standard. Therefore, no one is good enough. That would mean you can set your own standard and earn your way to heaven. All of us would have our own expectation of what is good and bad and God would have no say in the matter. But, God has the only say.

That's the reason for Jesus. The question is do you believe Jesus was who he claimed to be? If so. salvation is fairly simple. But walking out the Christian life is not so simple because we still have that pesky will of ours to deal with. That's a day-to-day work.

First, hell is the grave, and that's where we all go when we die. There is no such thing as eternal torture or punishment in scripture. There is a lake of fire into which all those who intentionally disrespect and reject God will be tossed and immediately burned up, thus depriving them of the blessing of an eternity with God.

So, you see, Jesus, whom you correctly describe as God, died for 3 days and was resurrected. It was His sacrificial act in offering Himself once for all that covered our past, present and future sins.The fact that he was resurrected is the promise that the same will be true for those of us who are His that have died physically: that we, too will be resurrected and have the blessing of an eternity with God.

We hope this answers your questions. Feel free to email us privately if we can be of more help.

@asker: The lake of fire is the fire that burns eternally, and this is for the second judgment that you reference. What trips most people up is thinking that hell is equal to fire and eternal torture or punishment when God's word clearly states otherwise. Hope that clears it up.

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REV. ROBERT A. KULZER, 65, was convicted of molesting 2 boys at Faith Temple Church, in Brighton. He was sentenced to 1 to 3 years in prison but it was stayed pending appeal, meaning if he can make $10,000 cash bail he will not serve time yet. The married grandfather was convicted of 3 counts of sodomy and 1 count each of promoting prostitution, sexual abuse and endangering the welfare of a child involving boys aged 12 to 16. Abuse included oral sex with a 16 year old boy, putting a condom on a 12 year old boy during a discussion about " the facts of life," and arranging for a boy to have sex with a 62 year old woman in the parsonage. Defense involved Kulzer's " good deeds," including being a missionary in Africa. (Rochester Democrat & Chronicle, 12/13/89)