When will women demand ecclesiastical equality in Catholicism?

Women can't demand it because they will never get it.

Before any of you get offended, I'm Catholic, I'm a woman and it's true.

In Catholicism women can't be religious leaders, there is no way women can be Priests (not traditionally anyway, I think there MIGHT be a few female priests somewhere, but they are certainly not supposed to be there according to tradition of religion). When women are nuns, they are required to cover up, of course, it is there choice and I don't have anything against it but why do Muslims have such a hard time if they do the same thing with Catholic women?

In some very old Churches, women were required to enter from the back or side entrance whereas men entered from the front centre.

Besides, Catholics believe in the Bible and the scriptures say some not-too-equal things about women in general...in the eyes of the Church, women are second to men and this will probably never change because we have followed the Bible for so long...

"Let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands" (Eph. 5:24).

"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean." (Leviticus 12:2)

"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)

"A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued." (Eccles. 26:14-15)

"A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord." (Eccles.26:25)

Why am I having this...oh, call it a woman's intuitive flash...that you could not care less about women's issues? Did you really think putting "women" and "equality" would cause a knee-jerk reaction that would cause us to ignore the fact that you are patronizing us? What you're really trying to do is bash the Church, and get us to buy in to your silly little arguments.

"Equal" does not mean "performs the same functions." Women can teach, women can correct, women can lead, women can heal. Women can't be Fathers.

In the meantime, perhaps we can see about getting the parts of the Bible you find so offensive tossed out. We'll start with all those books by Paul AKA Saul the self confessed murderer who inflicted all those bigoted rules on us. Any others we should remove in order to make you happy? We'd do anything for the Big Strong Man trying to protect us and give us equality!

Non-Catholic women already demand this. Catholic women do not.

WWJD? What would Jesus do?

The Catholic Church currently teaches:

The Lord Jesus chose men to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry.

The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.

For more information see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, sections 1577: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt3....

Here is Pope John Paul II's Apostolic Letter Ordination Sacerdotalis, On Reserving Priestly Ordination to Men Alone: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apo...

With love in Christ.

To have women priests would not be equality at all! Men and women are equal but have different roles that they were designed to carry out. Besides God choose the apostles all of which are men and sent them to be the first bishops of the church. God made the rules.

Protestant "ordination" is nothing more than a graduation ceremony from one of the many conflicting Protestant seminaries. The original and true Christian Church will never ordain women because it did not receive the authority to do so from its founder, Jesus Christ. The priesthood - which Protestant churches don't even have - is restricted to males because Jesus Christ clearly indicated it was His divine will, by choosing men 12 times out of 12, even though many holy women were available. If He had wanted priestesses in His Church, surely He would have made that known by choosing at least one.

<<When will women demand ecclesiastical equality in Catholicism?>>

"Equality" according to who's standards?

Ecclesiastical Authority is not a right. It is a Calling and a Privilege.

Hey, just because I'm a man doesn't mean I am entitled to the priesthood.

<<Now that most <snip> women as equal?>>

The Church does treat women as equals. What you have to understand is that "equal" does not mean "the same".

Besides, so what if many Protestant denominations allow women to be priests? So what?

That's no excuse! It's not like something wrong somehow inexplicably become right if enough people do it.

<<Bearing in mind <snip> the early church.>>

Paul was not a bigot, and very little of the Scripture he penned as anything to do with the all-male priesthood.

Gen. 3:15; Luke 1:26-55; John 19:26; Rev. 12:1- Mary is God's greatest creation, was the closest person to Jesus, and yet Jesus did not choose her to become a priest. God chose only men to be priests to reflect the complimentarity of the sexes. Just as the man (the royal priest) gives natural life to the woman in the marital covenant, the ministerial priest gives supernatural life in the New Covenant sacraments.

Judges 17:10; 18:19 – fatherhood and priesthood are synonymous terms. Micah says, “Stay with me, and be to me a father and a priest.” Fathers/priests give life, and mothers receive and nurture life. This reflects God our Father who gives the life of grace through the Priesthood of His Divine Son, and Mother Church who receives the life of grace and nourishes her children. In summary, women cannot be priests because women cannot be fathers.

Mark 16:9; Luke 7: 37-50; John 8:3-11 - Jesus allowed women to uniquely join in His mission, exalting them above cultural norms. His decision not to ordain women had nothing to do with culture. The Gospel writers are also clear that women participated in Jesus' ministry and, unlike men, never betrayed Jesus. Women have always been held with the highest regard in the Church (e.g., the Church's greatest saint and model of faith is a woman; the Church's constant teaching on the dignity of motherhood; the Church's understanding of humanity as being the Bride united to Christ, etc.).

Mark 14:17,20; Luke 22:14 - the language "the twelve" and "apostles" shows Jesus commissioned the Eucharistic priesthood by giving holy orders only to men.

Gen. 14:10; Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:15,17 - Jesus, the Son of God, is both priest and King after the priest-king Melchizedek. Jesus' priesthood embodies both Kingship and Sonship.

Gen. 22:9-13 - as foreshadowed, God chose our redemption to be secured by the sacrificial love that the Son gives to the Father.

Matt. 26:26; Mark 14:22; Luke 22:19 - because the priest acts in persona Christi in the offering to the Father, the priest cannot be a woman.

Mark 3:13 - Jesus selected the apostles "as He desired," according to His will, and not according to the demands of His culture. Because Jesus acted according to His will which was perfectly united to that of the Father, one cannot criticize Jesus' selection of men to be His priests without criticizing God.

John 20:22 - Jesus only breathed on the male apostles, the first bishops, giving them the authority to forgive and retain sins. In fact, the male priesthood of Christianity was a distinction from the priestesses of paganism that existed during these times. A female priesthood would be a reversion to non-Christian practices. The sacred tradition of a male priesthood has existed uncompromised in the Church for 2,000 years.

1 Cor. 14:34-35 - Paul says a woman is not permitted to preach the word of God in the Church. It has always been the tradition of the Church for the priest or deacon alone (an ordained male) to read and preach the Gospel.

1 Tim. 2:12 - Paul also says that a woman is not permitted to hold teaching authority in the Church. Can you imagine how much Mary, the Mother of God, would have been able to teach Christians about Jesus her Son in the Church? Yet, she was not permitted to hold such teaching authority in the Church.

Rom. 16:1-2 - while many Protestants point to this verse denounce the Church's tradition of a male priesthood, deaconesses, like Phoebe, were helpers to the priests (for example, preparing women for naked baptism so as to prevent scandal). But these helpers were never ordained.

Luke 2:36-37 - prophetesses, like Anna, were women who consecrated themselves to religious life, but were not ordained.

Isaiah 3:12 – Isaiah complains that the priests of ancient Israel were having their authority usurped by women, and this was at the height of Israel’s covenant apostasy.

They ARE equal. Do you see any Catholic women in burkas or hijabs? The problem is that men won't listen to women priests or pastors, so what's the good of having them? The challenge is to keep men on the righteous path, not the women. The men are the ones who get drunk and fight and cause all kinds of chaos. So you want to make it worse by having women in the pulpit? Give us women a break!

Women are more oriented towards relationships and childbearing than men. It's one thing to become a pastor for a Protestant church, but I don't think many women would want to be a priest (or would they be called "priestesses"? lol)

It may be a while before women demand this ... maybe never, unless the Catholic church changes its stance on marriage for priests.

This is one Catholic woman who knows better than to want equality -- ecclesiastical or otherwise -- with men.

I refuse to lower my standards that far.

Note for the humorously-impaired among us: the above was a joke.

When will a man-made organization do anything right all the time? Never.

Adam and Even couldn't even have a baby before they sinned.

My point is, only God is perfect. We can't expect man to be until we are made perfect when we are finally in his presence.