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? asked in SportsMartial Arts · 1 decade ago

For all the Kata fans on here.?

For you is kata simply an exhibition of form? Or do you really understand what is has to offer? Or any of the principles behind it?

So i would love some of the Kata doubters on here tell me how something that teaches proper body mechanics , distancing , maneuvering , evasion , technique placement , joint locks , throws , pressure points and much much more is worthless?

cant wait for this one.

Update:

allot of good answers here, thank you all (you know you you are).

@keyboard sounds like you got screwed brother, its okay as it is not your fault. i hope one day you find a good teacher and learn the truth.

to all, no one mentioned "natures of man" nutrition, psychology , physiology , anatomy , kinesiology. without these understandings kata is simply a mass of lifeless and meaningless physical movements.

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    In Traditional Martial Arts there are multifaceted approaches to teach the student History, Theory, Principles, Motion, Sequencing, Geometry, Physics, Kinematics, and Practical application at varying levels of complexity. The Kata being the encyclopedia contains all of this.

    Basic Motion training teaches what is to come for us as we learn kata. It teaches us how to move and how to understand the importance of the geometry of the motion. Basic motion is just that, the basics. We can never spend enough time on working the basics. I have been fortunate to have been told that my kata was very good on several occasions. I can attribute that to the many hrs of basic motion training in my early years in the martial arts. The Kata being the encyclopedia is the progenitor of the basics.

    Kata teaches movement as it relates to your body, Kata teaches you the Geometry, the Physics and the Kinematics of the motion as it relates to the theory and practical application of attack and defense sequences. Katas are of various ages, In traditional Okinawan Karate, most of the higher katas roots came from China and are relatively old. The Pinans were created by Anko Itosu in the early 1900's, and the various Traditional Kihon, Fukyugata katas were created in the 40's to the 50's.

    The older katas were created by people that had to defend themselves on a regular basis. The movements were practical, tried and true, for the most part. Sometimes moves were added to balance out the kata so the real applications could be hidden from the untrained eye. (there was a time when practicing Karate was against the law and practitioners had to train at night so they would not be seen, Katas were disguised as dance just in case they were seen training)

    Bunkai (breaking down) of kata is Theory, Principle, Physics, Kinematics, and Practical Application. Bunkai can be taught at many different levels. One simple explanation is that there are four levels of Bunkai.

    One - would be the most basic, easiest to see, explanation for the movement being broken down.

    Two - would be the closing of distance to take the practical application from punch, block, kick, attacks and defenses, to trapping range fighting,

    Three - would be closing the distance even further to include trapping, rips, gouges, tears, throws and pressure point applications.

    Four - would be the actual practical applications that the creator went through, or meant when the kata was created. Level four bunkai may actually have been lost through time. Not saying that we haven't figured it our through extensive analysis, but we can not verify, nor do we have historical ties to prove that we are doing what the originator intended.

    The Kata, being the encyclopedia, is the grand container where all bunkai thought, theory and actualization resides. Men and women are alive today from the great lessons of bunkai as taught in the katas.

    In Yakusoku Kumite we are taught how to move when being attacked, we practice muscle memory and combination sequencing that are applicable to street applications when used as a basis for training, and building upon. The Kata being the encyclopedia is the progenitor of all Yakusoku Kumite, ones steps, two steps, three steps or whatever you want to call them.

    In Proper Makiwara training we learn correct striking techniques, we harden the striking surfaces of our body to deliver the maximum damage with the least amount of effort. Makiwara helps to teach you proper Koshi. (Hip). Koshi is the basis for the power generation. Improperly done makiwara can have long term issues. You need to be trained by a true makiwara master, basically correctly stiking the makiwara for multiple different results daily. Depending on the stiffness and the type of makiwara you are training with, you can achieve different results from training. You can focus on the conditioning of the hands such that you can perform great feats of breaking. You can focus on proper hip training and timing within the punching sequence. If you have a chance you should take d\some time to look on You Tube for Onaga Michiko Sensei. She generates exceptional power and speed in her punching techniques due to the years of makiwara training and her father’s tutelage. Kata is where we hone our skills to have the proper geometry and kinimatics of motion to have successful makiwara training, and not injure ourselves during that training.

    In Hojo Undo we train our bodies to be hard, to be able to take punishment. Many exercises can be used to harden various parts of the bodies to accept punishment. Certain Hojo Undo techniques are performed during kata training.

    There are many books, and videos, in English, Japanese and many other languages that address all of the subjects the do exist in Katas and kata training.

    The nay sayers, and the impatient ones will never have what it takes to really commit to learning a true, whole martial art.

    Source(s): 39 Years Training, 36 Years Teaching, Never Finished Learning.
  • idai
    Lv 5
    1 decade ago

    Hi there

    They say imitation is the highest form of compliment but for many thats all they are practicing when they learn the forms. Kata are the instruction manual. In Japan before the 1500's when things werent formalised the techniques that worked and saved lives were written down in densho's and recorded and practiced. After the 1500's they became a painting by numbers exercise and thats down to the Japanese way of doing things and not mcdojos! And then we have the bunkai which is considered to be the explanation of kata yet all it does is add 5 more attackers around you and off we go continuing with the painting by numbers exercise once more. Theres a very good reason why all Japanese arts have kihon waza, Kumite, randori and kata. Thats because all of them make the art a complete fighting system. So why is it then that kumite is practiced so differently from kata when the kata is supposed to teach fighting techniques? The only way to get anything from the forms is to strip them appart for yourself and practice them with an uke adding henka and variation to how you and your uke deviate from the rails of the form. From this you will find that a few techniques have a thousand variations and do infact teach all the things you have listed. Training by numbers or performing and the bunaki will always be painting by numbers. Granted to learn the mechanics you have to learn them first but there has to become a point where you take the sabalisers off and start to think for yourself. I believe in the kata and understand its importance only when its trained and used correctly. I just dont like the way history has shaped its practice which is all down to the acceptance of budo to the japanese people after the warring states period had come to an end. Sadly because of this most of the soul, spirit and application was lost.

    Martial arts has the word art in it. Is the art part the expression of form or the expression and freedom of the individual? Picaso and Leonardo never painted by numbers? But they sure knew how to paint!

    Best wishes

    idai

  • 1 decade ago

    Because usually 8 out of 10 people who are taught kata really don't know sh*t about it. Some think it's like a sort of exercise in the same vain as pilates. Others simply think it's just something tedious to do because it's part of the curriculum... like learning a long repetitive math equation.

    I think these quotes from Hironori Otsuka in his book 'Wado-Ryu Karate' exemplify what "kata" should be:

    "It is obvious that these kata must be trained and practised sufficiently, but one must not be 'stuck' in them. One must withdraw from the kata to produce forms with no limits or else it becomes useless. It is important to alter the form of the trained kata without hesitation to produce countless other forms of training."

    "Kata must be correct, unlimited and most of all alive. Martial arts progress from kata to kumite, kumite to combat and so on. Kata is a fundamental aspect of martial arts and hence is unyieldingly important."

    Okay, so you know the series of tsukis in your kata would hurt your opponent, but could you pull it off? Is that grab-the-collar hand gesture, 180 degree pivot turn, or your jodan uke to break the attacker's arm manuever be actually usable? Knowing the application to the movement of kata isn't enough, you must be able to do it. Turning those pre-determined forms into real-time improvisations as dictated by the conditions of a fight should be the ultimate aim.

  • ?
    Lv 4
    1 decade ago

    As a Karateka, it's very important for me to know kata and the bunkai contained in the kata. It's like some of the people on this forum will tell you, it's the syllabus of your art and without it you have no Karate.

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  • ?
    Lv 6
    1 decade ago

    Every time I perform a kata, I get something new from it. Kata are an incredible teaching tool, easily remembered and trained, and full of incredible insights if you are open to looking for that. The problem has become the McDojo being taken as representative of the norm. "Do your form, get your belt". There's no instruction to lead you to those insights, and if you're never told they're there, you won't know where to begin.

    @Keyboard Warrior: 'As a representative of forums like Bullshido and Sherdog, I simply say that kata's are full of the "d34dly"'

    Why not just say "Representing the sheeple since 2007"?

    Source(s): Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu http://ocbujinkan.com/
  • ?
    Lv 5
    1 decade ago

    Kata is something I never understood until I discovered Bunkai, and as both a Karateka and Judoka, I saw stuff in Kata, blindingly obvious, that pure grapplers/strikers seem blind to.

    It is a deeper syllabus, almost a different art within itself, and a Karateka who specialises in Sanchin, or Sanjian if you do Chinese MAs, will have different answers to to a situation than someone who deeply understands Heian/Pinan Kata.

  • 1 decade ago

    To many kata is just an exhibition. Then to others like myself we are just beginning to scratch the surface as to what all is contained in the kata. There is so much to discover.

    Of course you are always going to have the ignorant that says kata means nothing, its a dance, or its like shadowboxing just punch air. They have no idea what is contained in the kata.

    Source(s): Martial Arts since 1982 Black Belt in Shorin Ryu Black Belt in Jujitsu Brown Belt in Judo
  • 1 decade ago

    A Kata, Pattern, Set or Form are all names for the same thing a method of exercising the single basic move in a way that allows apractitioner to take those basics away from their embryonic state and place them in to a state of sophistication. We could all stand in a horse stance and drill our basic moves over and over again, but a form allows us a view of those basics in fluid motion. When a MMA fighter trains techniques with a training partner he is doing nothing more than a two man form. Its the constant practice over and over that makes his technique effective. Its just a play on words to say no I don;t practice forms I just work on my techniques, that's form training by a different name.

    Source(s): 36 years martial arts
  • Jim R
    Lv 7
    1 decade ago

    Kata are the blueprint of a style. And so much more. Kata also contain the "fine print" where the real fighting information is stored. The beauty of that is the interpretation is up to us, and there is plenty there for everybody. It is sad for those who do not understand kata, as they miss so very much. I was such a skeptic at one time, and all I wanted was to spar. I am glad my sensei was stubborn on this issue.

  • Kokoro
    Lv 7
    1 decade ago

    for me kata, is the manual to the style you study, everything you need is in kata, without it you dont have karate.

    kata defines the style, and contains grappling as well as striking, both stand up and ground are all in kata

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqYy7...

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    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AutWa...

    Kata at its core teaches the following

    Technique

    Tactics

    Kokyu (breathe control)

    Kaeshu (reversals)

    Atemi (vital strike to vital area)

    Kyusho (pressure point strikes)

    Kensetsu (bone or joint bending)

    Appaku (applied pressure)

    Kotekitai (absorbing and controlling pain)

    Nage (throwing)

    Chime (choking)

    kata is not that simple,

    it takes years to understand the simplest kata, there are different levels of studying bunkai, it can be anywhere from a basic understanding to a very advance one. and its not always a block or punch, take the kata tekki (naihanchin) this kata is all grappling moves with few strikes.

    each kata has a number of interpretations some depend on your level of understand and others very from teach or style. there is no one answer for what the bunkai is.

    and bunkai is equally important without bunkai kata is meaningless, there are several levels of bunkai

    @keyboard warrior, if you truly study kata then you would understand how import it was, all you do was just memorize patterns it is farm more then that

    Source(s): 30+yrs ma
  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    For me, Kata is a demonstration of the years of training that can be demonstrated to other members of what you know and how skilled you are with the techniques.

    Kata is also a training method used for muscle memory meaning for realistic combat, it is effective. Another alternative is Shadow Boxing.

    Source(s): 4 years Rhee. 4 years ITF. 2 years Muay Thai. Very little differences between Kata and Shadow boxing.
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