JW: Do you believe Jesus also created?

Jesus was God's first creation. aka Jesus is the (first?) son of God.

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The passage of which you speak, is Not so translated as to say God created his Son, quite the opposite appears to be true.

Colossians 1:

12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. 13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,

14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

15 He is the image of the invisible God,

**the firstborn of all creation. (This is a reference to the Son being the Messiah to all of Creation, Not his *own creation.)

16 For **by**> him.. all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—

all things were created **through**> him and **for**> him.

that in everything he might be preeminent.

19 For **in> him **all the **fullness *of *God was pleased to **dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

This scripture does not say God created his Son, it says His Son was the reason for all creation and *Through his Son all things were created.

17 And **he** is **before **all **things, and **in >him **all **things hold together. 18 And **he is the **head of the *body, the *church. He is the **beginning, the **firstborn from the dead*,*(This is a reference to Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection.)

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If you believe Jesus is the son of God, then do you also believe that Jesus had a hand in

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Answered above.

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I don't understand why one must pay for the sins of others, esp Jesus dying to save humanity. I also don't understand the Original sin for the same reason.

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Lucifer.

Lucifer before he sinned against God was highly considered in Heaven. he as everyone else in heaven has free-will.

Lucifer sinned in his heart/mind, the Father of all sin - Pride. deciding he should be the Messiah instead of God's Son Jesus.

Lucifer tempted Eve and Adam with the same pride of Heart that he allowed to grow inside of him.

Once self-centered pride is learned and known in the heart/Mind, it cannot be unlearned; and it cannot help but be passed down from parent to child, Generation after Generation.

This is the evil, Lucifer scarred Humanity with for it's entire existence on this Earth.

Jesus Christ was without sin so that he could become our Predecessor to God.

Remember, throughout Jesus' entire life, when he stood before Pilot, No man of all those who knew him and all those who had contact with him, No man was able to stand before Jesus as his accuser; He stood before ALL Innocent of any wrong-doing and yet the Pharisees called-out for his death

The murderer Barabbas had to be let free so that the Pharisees could get their way and kill the innocent Jesus Christ.

Get that? A Murderer went free from death because Jesus Christ gave his life instead.

Just as he did for you and me.

The fulfillment of the Law is forgiveness or acquittal from guilt.

Guilty.. but Forgiven.

Jesus Christ sacrificed his human existence in one of the most painful deaths humanly possible, he did so to bridge the gap from a Law that is broken that requires death, to the fulfillment of the Law which is Mercy that forgives and creates a new life eternal; By the Grace of God.

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And isn't the Holy Spirit concept reincarnation?

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No. God’s Holy Spirit is his Essence, the part of Him that has revealing power in our lives when we Seek for God and his Son Yeshua Jesus Christ in his Word, God will convict, lead, guide and direct us using the revealing of his Spirit.

I believe the teachings from the Prophets, prophesying about God’s Son and Savior being born and where his blood-line, his teachings and his Miracles preformed 700, 800, 1000 years before Yeshua Messiah was born. coupled with the first-hand accounts of these prophesies in action by the disciples along with scripture like Colossians ^above, are excellent indicators to show that Yeshua Messiah Jesus Christ is indeed the Only Son of God and the Only way to forgiveness from God through the Sons Salvation offered.

Interesting questions.

God Bless

First, "Super" is interpreting scripture not reading.

the Messiah was the prophesied leader of Israel.

Example of terms: the General is the highest rank of all the army.

The General is still of, or part of the army.

Firstborn of all creation, makes Jesus of creation, or part of creation, just as the general is part of the army.

Col 1:17 He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, Again Paul helps understand that firstborn denotes 'beginning'

Rev 3:14 The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God,

"by" is used in Col 1 the same way as this expression.

"the letter came by messenger" We know that the messenger was not the author of the message, only the channel that the message came by.

Jesus is discribed as God's master worker Prov 8:22 “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way,

Before His works of old.

23 “From everlasting I was established,

From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.

24 “When there were no depths I was brought forth,

When there were no springs abounding with water.

25 “Before the mountains were settled,

Before the hills I was brought forth;

26 While He had not yet made the earth and the fields,

Nor the first dust of the world.

27 “When He established the heavens, I was there,

When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,

28 When He made firm the skies above,

When the springs of the deep became fixed,

29 When He set for the sea its boundary

So that the water would not transgress His command,

When He marked out the foundations of the earth;

30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman;

finally look up the definitions of 'create' and 'beget' They both have the meaning "to cause to exist"

So when the bible calls Jesus, Adam, and the angels 'sons' of God, it doesn't mean that God had sexual relations with someone.

It means that God, caused these individuals to exist. It also shows the close relationship God wants with his intelligent creation.

Original sin is another topic, email me if you want.

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I don't understand why one must pay for the sins of others, esp Jesus dying to save humanity

WHY DID JESUS HAVE TO DIE?

Jesus had to die because God's own law stipulates that death is the penelty for sin. (Romans 6:23; Genesis 3)

Adam and Eve were created perfect. If they had obeyed god they would have lived forever. When they disobeyed they became "defective" they broke their link with God (like a computer unplugging itself from the wall) their "batteries" (life span) would eventually run out, and they would die. The problem was since they were 'defective' all their children would inherit this imperfection (sin), through their genetic makup. Because of Adams original sin, all humans have been born "slaves" to sin and ultimate death. We were effectively in what the bible calls bondage - none of Adams children could live forever.

GOD'S BAILOUT PLAN

A crime had been committed, justice demanded the law be applied BUT ...if someone innocent was willing to pay the collective price, God could (without compromise) wipe out the consequences of that sin as if it had never happened. That is exactly what the ransom was (see below) . An innocent man, offering to die so the law can be respected but mercy applied - see Romans 5: 7, 8. (1 cor 15: 55 - 57).

# QUESTION : Why didn't God just ignore what Adam and Eve did and let the children live?

God could not ignore the issues raised without calling into question his OWN righteousness; To overlook sin (defined in scripture as "lawlessness" /"crime") is, ultimately to condone it. A judge that fails to punish those that break a just law not only becomes a party to the crime but undermines the basis of a free society on which those laws are founded. Thus the only thing he could rightly do is seek a way to apply the law AND find a way to have mercy on those that deserve it. In his wisdom, God found a way to do both but at great personal cost

This all goes into operation when God's Kingdom comes.

FURTHER READING

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20011115/article_02.ht...

I agree they were not born. Adam was created but Jesus was not Jesus always existed with the Father. The Title Firstborn can mean the first one born but it does not always. what about Esau and Jacob. Esau was the first one born BUT JACOB got the TITLE Firstborn also with Manasseh and Ephraim Manasseh was the first one born BUT EPHRAIM got the TiTle. So as you can see Firstborn does not always mean the First one born it can be a title. and that is how it is intended to be used in Colossians 1 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. In this text from Colossians 1:15,16 Firstborn is used to show Jesus is Over ALL creation the first the #1 and to explain it even more the text goes on to say He (Jesus) created ALL things. So He cannot be a thing Himself the JW's add (other) to the text to avoid Jesus superiority to All creation. This also contradicts the rest of the text by adding the word (other) if you know the true meaning of Firstborn in this context.

Thank you for your question. I will answer your primary question, as to whether Jesus created. The other questions are interesting, but too many to answer here.

However, some of your other questions may find answers at our official website:

http://www.watchtower.org/

As Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses base our beliefs on the Bible, so our answers will not always agree with what is written in the Qur'an.

The Christian New Testament, which was written originally in the Greek language, says that God created "through" [Greek: δια] the Word (Jesus) at John 1:3. That means that Jesus was the Agent of creation, but not the Author of creation.

Another symbolic description, found at Proverbs 8:22-30, speaks of the one who became Jesus as the "master worker" alongside God:

""The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old...before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep...Then I was the craftsman ["master worker," English Standard Version] at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence." (New International Version)

The Bible calls other spirit beings, like the angels, "sons of God," meaning that they were created by God. Likewise, the Bible calls the man Adam the "son of God," for the same reason. Calling Jesus the Son of God means that he was created by God -- he was God's first creation (Revelation 3:14) -- but he is also called God's "first-born," "only-begotten" or "unique" Son, the one closest to his Father's heart. (John 1:18) Therefore, although the Bible calls men and angels "sons of God," Jesus has a special relationship with his Father.

We do not follow the Jewish Halakah law because much of it is based on the "Oral Torah" of the Pharisees and later Rabbis, not just the Bible. Jesus was under the Law while he was on earth because that Law was abolished only with his sacrificial death. So, Jesus was under the Jewish Law and fulfilled it, but Christians are not bound by the Jewish Law, especially as codified by later Rabbis.

Muslims and Biblical Christians share some similar beliefs, the most obvious being the belief that God is One, not "three-in-one." But Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that Jaheem has literal fire where souls are tormented forever, and our Jannah is a literal paradise to come on earth, under God's Kingdom.

Please feel free also to address Jehovah's Witnesses in person.

As-salaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.

<<<Do you believe that Jesus had a hand in creation? Did he create the rest of creation alongside God?>>>

Yes. As 1 Cor. 8:6 says: "But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life." Heb. 1:2 adds: "God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe."

As both verses show, God is the only true Creator who created the universe THROUGH his Son, Jesus.

They believe Jesus before being Christ was the archangel Michael, and he was appointed by Jehovah when needed. Under that rationale, in the creation myth he most likely would have been made at the same time as the 'heavens and it's inhabitants' part.

Jesus is not Creator of heaven and earth; that is Yahweh God alone. And no, Jesus was not created, He was begotten of God; God's only born Son. The first Adam was created; the last Adam was begotten--the difference between the two son's, so-to-speak.

Hi,

I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Jehovah is the Creator/Designer, and Jesus was his master worker & all things were made through him.

So, Jesus didn't create, as such... he made [using Jehovah's designs]

Similarly, a person who works for a particular factory would make cups & plates for example... but who's name would those cups & plates carry? It would be the designer of the items, not the person who made them on the factory.

Greetings,

In Colossians 1:16 Jesus is presented as the "master worker" of Proverbs 8:30 who works alongside the Creator. Every verse mentioning Jesus' role in creation actually proves that he is NOT the Creator. The Bible always makes it clear that God created "THROUGH" Christ, and it is never said that Christ created!

While some translations obscure this by rendering DIA as "by," the original Greek of every such verse states that things were created THROUGH (DIA) Christ which denotes his being God's *agent,* not The Creator. Correct translations make this clear: NKJV, NASB, ASV, WEB, NAB, NJB, NIV, NRSV. It is always God created "THROUGH" Christ, not that Christ created! (Cf. Heb.1:2 & Jn.1:3).

Scholar Emil Brunner writes: "the world, it is true, was created THROUGH--DIA--the Son, but not BY--hUPO--the Son... but that He Himself is never called the Creator."--"Dogmatics" (Volume I) page 308

"Jesus is not the absolute independent creator, but rather the intermediate agent in creation." —Dana & Mantey ;102

“God is the immediate agent, but he worked though (dia)."—H.S. Miller; General Biblical Introduction pg.376

The fact that Christ is ALWAYS grammatically presented as the intermediate AGENT that God used in creation agrees with the context of Scripture. Jesus always clearly states that he "can do nothing of myself" and "is not able to do anything from himself" (Jn 5:19,30; 6:38). Jesus must always be *given* power or authority! (Mt.28:18; 11:27, Jn. 5:22,25,26; 17:2; 3:35; 2Pt.1:17). Jesus says the Father had to *grant* him the power to give life (Jn.5:26). The Son does not naturally possess life within himself.

Also Christ NEVER presented himself as equal to Almighty God. He plainly said: "The Father is greater than I" (Jn.14:28).

There are dozens of Scriptures which explicitly show that Jesus had to receive power and authority from God–even after he returned to heaven: (Dan.7:13,14; Mt.22:42-44; 28:18; Ac.2:34-36; 1Cor.15:27,28; Eph.1:17, 19-22; Heb.1:13; 2:5,8; Rev.2:26-27; 5:12).

Explicit scriptures show that Jesus was less than Almighty God at every point of his existence (Jn.14:28; 20:17; Mk.13:32; 1Cor.15:27,28; Rev.3:2,12). At the highest position he will ever attain, Jesus is still "subject" to *GOD* the same way we are "subject" to him.

Now I know that Muslims object to Christ being God’s “son.” However, I would first say that God’s Word calls Christ, angels and humans “God’s sons” or “God’s children” and the Quran says that the Hebrew and Greek Bible is God's Word and that a follower of Islam must accept it as such (Suras 3:2; 4:163; 5:47; 17:56; 23:47; 48:30).

The problem is not in the terms “father” and “son” but in the incorrect and overly literal interpretation forced into how Christ is God’s son (Sura 6:101; 19:35). Muslims avoid calling Jesus God's "Son" because they cannot dissociate that term from the human generation of sons by sexual procreation with a woman.

But when it speaks of God the Bible does not use the word “son” or “father” in such a literal sense. The Quran is right in that we must not understand God to have had a female “consort” or to literally have begotten a child. God is a spirit being and he does not procreate. Adam was called a “son of God” but Gen.2:7 and Sura 3:59 agree when they say that God “created him from dust” “then said to hem: ‘B’: and he was.” The Quran prefaces this comment with the statement: "Jesus is like Adam in the sight of Allah." So Adam and Jesus were both called sons of God because they came directly from God (cf. Sura 19:35). That's the powerful way how the Creator produced a son: not in a literal, fleshly way. The Bible tells us that Jesus "lives because of the Father" (Jn 6:57) so Jesus is called God’s son to show that he received life from the Father.

The word “son” is often used in a figurative sense. In Arabic we find the expressions “son of the village” and “son of the language” and even in the Quran the Arabic uses “son of the road” for a traveler. These words do not mean a village, the language or the road has literally begotten children through marriage.

The Bible uses terms and descriptions to describe Christ’s relation to God such as "only-begotten," "son," "firstborn," and "child" but that are to be understood in reference to the nature of spirit beings, not humans. Likewise, when the Quran uses expressions like “the face of God,” and “the Hand of God” they are not understood literally (Sura 2:109; 48:10).

Some Muslim scholars also accept the expression “son of God” as a figure of speech in the Bible (Imam Abu Hamid Al-Ghazsai and Ibn Qutaybah).

Your further queries will have to be presented in additional questions.

Yours,

BAR-ANERGES