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Why don't modern CO2 records match direct measurments for the past 250 years?
It seems strange that all these blogs and science websites show alarming and dramatic changes in CO2 levels,
but the direct measurements show an extremely stable equilibrium of between .03-.04 in accordance with Le Chatelier's Principal. Did they just not use the old measurements, and got new ones? Or were the old measurements found to be not valid or usefull?
There's been 90,000 samples made just from 1812. The Pettenkofer method Acurate to 3% seems to have shown levels over 400ppm.
EDIT: 90,000 From 1812-1961.
Hey dook, Nice wording! "No scientist believes co2 levels arent substatantially higer now than in the last 1000 years". (paraphase) Maybe that's because they know they are the lowest (generally) now, than they have been for 600 million years! Only a period around 237 or so million years ago came close.
Jerry lee. Le Chatelier's Principal refers to processes which are in equilibrium, like co2 in the atmosphere and it's absorption rates. There is a balance of co2, that when altered by more c02 in the air the processes of absorption are speeded up. Example, Plants absorbs more, rocks are broken down faster, and the oceans absorbe co2 faster. The exact LAW is stated like this. When any external force acts on a system in equilibrium, the equilibrium shifts in the direction which tends to diminish the effect of the external force.
6 Answers
- BullseyeLv 710 years agoFavorite Answer
This is because ALL of the so called climate scientists only have 25 years of experience-- and a climatology degree was first offered only about 10 years ago.
However as they have said the "debate" is over "we have all the answers we need".... and a consensus.;
- bravozuluLv 710 years ago
It is very difficult to measure CO2 accurately. If you did it in a fairly crowded building, it would be several times the levels that are shown in places like the top of a mountain in Hawaii. That being said, I don't trust CO2 levels in ice cores as being accurate. It takes too long for the ice to become sealed. There are other problems like solubility and differentially forcing out certain molecules like you get in a reverse osmosis system. There are studies such as the stomata in leaves studies that shows that CO2 varies considerably more than ice cores suggest. Mostly the old tests weren't reliable. The new test, ice cores, that are used by alarmists isn't reliable either though.
- 10 years ago
>>>but the direct measurements show an extremely stable equilibrium of between .03-.04 in accordance with Le Chatelier's Principal.
Le Chatelier's Principle applies to the direction that a chemical reaction flows in, and while it dictates that a system moves back toward equilibrium after an upset, assuming that it's left to work on its own, it does not dictate that there be a set range, such as 0.03-0.04 for CO2 ppmv. It is related not to concentration, but to the rate of reaction in either direction - concentration changes merely drive the reaction rates until they are equal. I think you are conflating the idea of a nominal equality into the definition of dynamic equilibrium, but it's not a requirement.
Anyways, I'm not sure how this applies to the current CO2 measurements, and how they compare to past measurements. My first question I guess would be, what measurements? We don't have extended records like the Keeling curve that extend past the middle of the twentieth century, so my only guess, since you probably aren't referring to ice core samples (which show a variance between roughly 200-300 ppmv), is that you are referring to the chemical measurements (of questionable quality and global representativeness) taken by individuals over the past few centuries, which, well, were of questionable quality and imply very drastic changes to the Earth's atmosphere that simple aren't feasible. Core records are a better indicator of past CO2 concentrations.
Edit: can you give a more specific source for a reference, so I can better answer your question?
- Hey DookLv 710 years ago
Your statistics are complete crap (probably why you provide no sources). No real climate scientist believes that global CO2 levels today aren't substantially higher now than they've been for thousands of years. And there is no prospect of any reversal of this trend for at least the immediate future.
U.S. National Academy of Sciences, 2010:
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12782&...
“Climate change is occurring, is caused largely by human activities, and poses significant risks for a broad range of human and natural systems.”
http://nationalacademies.org/morenews/20100716.htm...
“Choices made now about carbon dioxide emissions reductions will affect climate change impacts experienced not just over the next few decades but also in coming centuries and millennia…Because CO2 in the atmosphere is long lived, it can effectively lock the Earth and future generations into a range of impacts, some of which could become very severe.”
http://www.nasonline.org/site/PageServer?pagename=...
“The Academy membership is composed of approximately 2,100 members and 380 foreign associates, of whom nearly 200 have won Nobel Prizes. Members and foreign associates of the Academy are elected in recognition of their distinguished and continuing achievements in original research; election to the Academy is considered one of the highest honors that can be accorded a scientist or engineer.”
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- A GuyLv 710 years ago
Just for us stupid ones:
Please summarize Le Chateliers principle an how it indicates that CO2 should be at an equiplibrium between 0.03-0.04.
- Anonymous10 years ago
The last ice age ended when humans learned how to make fire. Human campfires caused the glaciers to melt.