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Shienaran asked in SportsMartial Arts · 10 years ago

Senior practitioners & instructors. Would this be unethical towards our instructor or am I just overreacting?

As most of you already know, a couple of years ago, I have recently taken up Shotokan under a new instructor who also taught Jujutsu. He and most of the senior students have taken part in MMA fights and have made a name for themselves in the local MMA scene. I have initially been interested in the Shotokan training only, but because he taught it as part of our curriculum, I have also taken up ground grappling as part of his Jujutsu lessons. With my Aikido background, it was easier for me to understand the basic principles of the art and though I'm not as flexible or agile as I once was and usually get my butt handed to me by the younger athletic guys, I can explain the techniques better than most students which is why I'm the go to training partner for most new students. At our instructor's insistence, I along with my classmates have also participated in local grappling competitions representing his school for two years straight now to gain experience. But I have always considered my primary training under him to be in Shotokan Karate and not Jujitsu.

Unfortunately, our instructor has recently undergone a personal crisis which has greatly affected his family and his job(he teaches part time out of love for the art) and quite recently it has affected the school as well. So much so he decided to inform us he was taking an indefinite leave of absence from teaching until he resolves his deep personal problems and might only come in once in a while to check on us.

He left the school in the charge of our assistant instructor, someone we all respect and have no problems with, having been the pioneer MMA fighter in our city and put our school on the map nationally. But the problem is, though he is a 3rd Dan in TKD, he is not a Black belt in Shotokan. He himself took cognizance of this fact which is why he suggested the school focus on teaching Jujitsu and MMA classes only while our instructor is absent.

We the old students can of course continue our Shotokan training, we are just not accepting new students in Shotokan, only for Jujitsu and MMA classes. The next question is of course, how can we teach jujitsu without a certified instructor? Well our assistant instructor is a Blue Belt in BJJ under the Equipe Fabricio school and he suggested we get accredited by his head instructor who teaches in another city, all we need is to be tested under his BJJ instructor(after proper requisite training of course) who can visit us regularly, since the head instructor is already familiar with us and our skills through the tournaments we joined in the past. When I pointed out the problem of justifying this action to our Shotokan instructor, the assistant said our instructor has told him in the past that it was ok to cross train in another school and that this was the same thing, the other senior students all agreed. But I don't think they realize the consequences of this action, my beef with this move is that when we do get accredited, wouldn't there now technically be two head instructors in our school? While I have great respect for the BJJ instructor(I've met him a few times and know of his great reputation) my loyalty is still with my Shotokan instructor as it is his school we are carrying. Which also brings up the question of which school's name our representatives carry during future grappling tournaments from now on as well. I'd bring this up with my Shotokan instructor, but I don't want to bypass our assistant instructor either since it should be him who should talk to our instructor about this first. He still thinks there's no conflict of interest and I don't want to start any trouble between him and our instructor.

Oh by the way, the reason why I'm concerned for all this is because due to my mature age(and apparently alleged maturity ; P) I was elected president of the school's student association tasked with organizing events and tournament participation(e.g. Karate, Grappling, Kickboxing, Boxing and MMA tournaments, etc.).

Update:

@jwbulldogs: Yes, I did change the spelling, but it is intentional. The reason I changed the spelling is because, while he teaches Jujutsu for self defense, he also had to modify the curriculum and focus teaching ne waza as well to enable the students to participate in grappling tournaments, hence the change in spelling. So we basically have two grappling curriculum, Jujutsu for self defense and the modified one I spelled Jujitsu tailored for grappling and MMA tournaments(having removed a lot of moves considered illegal).

Update 2:

I just want to make it clear that I have no problems in terms of the additional training. I'm always open to new skills. It's just that as with most things I do in life, I tend to take on an endeavor with the long term in mind. If I was just planning to take this up and quit in say 2 years, then I couldn't care less, but because I do plan to continue training for the long term, I know from experience that small decisions and problems like these have a tendency to come back and bite us in the as5 in the future. Ours is a small city and our dojo is currently the only one that teaches Shotokan and grappling. If it closes, that's it. The next nearest available school is in another city 3 hours ride away from ours.

Update 3:

Btw, I think the reason why our assistant instructor thinks it's ok is because he earned his BJJ blue belt from another school in another city after years of training under our Shotokan instructor with his blessing. All of us, including the assistant instructor, learned our grappling basics including ne waza from our Shotokan instructor and he encouraged us to further our training elsewhere if we can. This basic training and his extensive fighting experience under our instructor's tutelage was what enabled our assistant instructor to rise up the BJJ ranks faster than other students in that school. Our Shotokan instructor is not against expanding our horizons and is proud of our assistant instructor's achievements and our assistant instructor's loyalty to him is without question. But somehow I don't think this accreditation situation was part of what he had in mind when he said to cross train. Which is why I'm asking this question. So I can decide whether to pursue efforts to better exp

Update 4:

lain the situation and its consequences to them or just leave it be. I don't want to rock an already rocky boat as it is.

Update 5:

Thanks for the answers guys, they really helped me re-examine and think things over.

@Flawed & Shiro: I have thought of that, but the school is not structured so, our instructor rents time in a gym and most of the tuition goes to rental with a little left for equipment etc. Like I said, he taught out of love for the art.

@Aaron J: Yes, because we also have a fight team, he plans to be BJJ certified and wants his team mates to be certified as well, his plan is to legitimize our ranks in Jujitsu. He wants the team to stay together and is doing his best to keep it from breaking up.

Basically, I have pinpointed the cause of my reservations to this decision as due to mine and my classmates' and assistant instructor's sense of loyalty to our old instructor. Had they decided to close down the school and start a new one all over again with the BJJ accreditation, I wouldn't have any problems with it. But because we feel we needed to honor our Shotokan instructor's legacy after he built the sch

Update 6:

school and it's current reputation from scratch, they want to keep it alive by continuing to carry the school's name and the reputation it has earned even though the accreditation would make it akin to a corporate takeover of management albeit through a backdoor channel. Sooner or later, we will have to make a choice between our Shotokan instructor or the new BJJ head instructor. I guess being older and having this "look before you leap" and "calling a spade a spade" habit of mine kinda makes me a real killjoy. Either way, I feel sad that things have come to this.

7 Answers

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  • 10 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Many good answers so far.

    Life gives you lemons; make lemonade.

    In my experience a ship can only have one Master. You may have to open your own school, or stay where you are and serve only one master at a time.

    Accreditation is not all that it is cracked up to be. Some folks think it is the thing that makes martial arts. Life has shown me it is like anything else. The proff is in the pudding.

    Don't fret over it. Just commit to do one or the other. If you stay accept what it is. If you go leave on good terms and with respect. Don't worry about the rocky boat. If it stays afloat or sinks it won't be because you stayed or left. It will be because the Master put it on the rocks.

    Source(s): Taekwando instructor, Wing chung Kung Fu student, 30 years as a Scout leader and volunteer, life
  • Anonymous
    10 years ago

    I can understand your worry, but I agree with the idea that you are overreacting. Your head instructor is gone, and quite possibly will be gone for good. Having made that clear before he left, I'm sure that he would understand that you all need to do what you need to do to continue with your own martial art studies.

    Before I comment more, the BJJ certification is what the assistant is going for, correct? How is this a style conflict with the Shotokan instructor?

    EDIT -

    I don't believe that this would really be along the lines of a corporate takeover, as I know of and have trained at several schools with two or more senior instructors, who also teach different arts. There may need to be a coordinating of schedules, but it really shouldn't pose too much of a problem.

    Something that I have learned in the past that I think would translate well to your situation is waiting for what you want to happen. I understand your reservations and desire to resume training with the Shotokan Sensei when/if he decides to return to teaching, but that could pose detriment to yourself, the others, and the school as a whole.

    There's an old Buddhist saying that goes something like: Wanting and having expectations will not make you happy, and will more often end in failure. Reacting to what is, in a way that moves you forward will end your suffering. Basically, while you enjoy martial arts and that is your lifestyle, the desire that is driven by your loyalty to your Shotokan Sensei, is causing you a problem, and may do more than just give you a headache. Instead, you should look to your future, see this moment as something you should work through, and step up to continue your training with the assistant instructor, and possibly a new one. (It may not be what you "want", but it is what "is".) Who knows, maybe the Shotokan Sensei will be happier with this move, and it may help to ease his own stress.

  • Anonymous
    10 years ago

    From where I stand i don't see how it's possible to continue Shotokan training until your head master returns, at least at this current state. My personal first instinct would be to find a high ranking shotokan practitioner that is actually accredited to teach.

    My personal thoughts on the whole BJJ accreditation is that you should divide the school into separate classes while the instructor is away. Instead of having one school for shotokan, you can have multiple schools teaching at the same building. A rotating schedule that would train alternate arts on alternate days. Once your shotokan master returns, you can return to business as usual. Of course my view is influenced by my old Hapkido dojang, where they would have many arts training in the same building in different time slots. We had Hapkido, some karate style (I'm not sure which), jujitsu, aikido, and judo all going on at the same place.

  • 10 years ago

    I'm going to say you are overreacting. The circumstances you are facing is not the nor. However, it is what it is. You can't control what is happening. You much like your martial arts training must learn to roll with the punches. In you aikido training you just have to blend with your situation. You have to adapt to your environment. In life we all have circumstances that come up that we haven't planned. You have to adjust and keep moving in the midst of your challenges. Apply this to your martial arts development.

    I'm not sure if you realized that you changed the spelling from jujitsu to jujitsu. There is a difference. Also, what you describe that you are training is is actually jiu jitsu (BJJ). Again there are differences.

    Source(s): Martial Arts since 1982 Black Belt in Shorin Ryu Black Belt in Jujitsu Brown Belt in Judo
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  • ?
    Lv 5
    10 years ago

    That is a predicament, but not one that has never happened before. My teacher had once told me of a dojo mutiny after his initial Karate teacher refused to progress and propagate the style that they were practicing at the time.

    The fact is that you need a leader and someone who can appear authoritative during your teacher's absence.

    This assistant instructor seems to be capable enough to handle the task set before him, if he can not progress under your teacher, he must receive validation from somewhere or else your group is going to permanently fracture and dissolve.

    When there is a void of teaching, students will either rise to the occasion of cease practice all together. Many famous Karate masters, having lost a teacher for this or that reason, would seek out another.

    Personally, if I were the head teacher, the propagation of the art comes first and foremost. It will endure long after my death, provided I sow the seeds with the entirety of my heart. Even if I had to teach in a slum.

    But, ideological difference aside, you need someone who appears in control. Not just being in control, but someone whom has the proper credentials to be in control.

    Source(s): 2nd Dan, Iaido 1st Dan, Karatedo
  • 10 years ago

    I second Flawed_logic's suggestion.

    Creating a new school might be able to help you avoid the friction from switching "allegiances." It might entail extra administrative work, but it would make things a lot easier when your shotokan instructor returns.

  • Anonymous
    10 years ago

    I think you should contact the organization and see what they say.

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