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Is the idea that AGW is a threat originate from the fight against Communism.?
Denialists love to call AGW realists "leftists" or even "Marxists"
http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ak...
The truth is that you do not need to know about political motivations to refute science which is wrong, if you have scientific evidence to falsify this wrong science. Do we need to know the political stripe of those who believed in phlogiston or the plumb pudding model of the atom? No! We have the scientific evidence that shows that these two hypotheses were wrong.
However, I do enjoy debunking denialists, so I will discuss the politics of climate realists anyway. Consider Gilbert Plass, one of the first scientists to say that AGW could be harmful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Plass
Gilbert Plass worked for the Aeronutronic division of the Ford Motor Company.a defense and space related division, in other words, weapons research.
Mike S.
You are correct that we will never change the minds of denialists. We may never see another sunspot and relocate Venetian gondoliers from Venice to New York and denialists will still say, "It's the Sun." However, there are lots of people who may find denialist arguments convincing, unless we respond to the with the truth.
Matthew
Your first video looks like standard tin foil hat brigade fare. In the second video, Lawrence Solomon seems to have a fixation on Al Gore.
<Exactly where are you getting your "scientific evidence" to debunk deniers?>
Some of it is from my male cattle plant food detector. Many of the denialist claims are simply not logical. CO2's biological role and the fact that it lagged temperature in ice core samples does not mean that CO2 does not absorb infrared. Denialists love to list locations where the weather happens to be cold and ignore any hot weather. Many denialists were giving weather reports from the UK during last winter. If UK weather is so crucial to understanding global climate, why did they stop giving UK weather reports? Because more current UK weather reports do not fit the denialist agenda.
The truth is that global arming is happening
http://www.skepticalscience.com/10-key-climate-ind...
And we are causin
And we are causing it
http://www.skepticalscience.com/10-Indicators-of-a...
The ten warmest years in history are 2010, 2005, 2009, 2007, 2002, 1998, 2006, 2003, 2004 and 2001.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A2.tx...
The main problem with the idea that current global warming is natural is that no known natural forcing has shown a trend that could explain this current global warming. Solar activity has shown a downward trend over the last fifty years and Earth's orbital variations have been in a very slow cooling trend for the last 6,000 years.
antarcticice
Good response to Ottawa Mike's response.
Matthew
<Forget about infrared absorbtion.>
Yeah, let's forget high school science and live in a denialist fantasy would instead.
<Google temp. record fraud.>
I would rather google the truth.
8 Answers
- antarcticiceLv 710 years agoFavorite Answer
Yes they do, there's also "religion" "followers of Gore" and various often repeated catch phrases about Kool aid and chicken little etc etc etc, I also seem to recall "alarmist are also rude and name callers, which is just a little funny in light of the above.
For them this is about throwing mud as much and as fast as possible to try and cover the fact they have nothing when it comes to addressing the real matter "the science" they chant "the hockey stick is disproved, the hockey stick is disproved" when it quite clearly is not.
The thing is with much of this nonsense they don't even seem to care that what they are saying makes no sense, takes ottawa's rubbish 'Russia?' is he serious, interesting theory small fly in said theory, Russia return to a level of moderate prosperity is built on it's oil industry, I would wonder at the logic of them starting a movement that would affect their own economy probably to a greater degree than it would the west, but then deniers have a pretty long history of not thinking their theories through.
Maybe ottawa said the Russian but meant the Chinese, but hang on their prosperity is built on the back of the western economy, again that's denier logic for you, sort of like the irish terrorist who threatens to shoot himself and then the hostages!
- Ottawa MikeLv 610 years ago
It doesn't matter where the idea of AGW originated. It only matters how that idea is being used and there is plenty of evidence to show that it is being used by "communists" and "Marxists" to promote their values.
One argument against this idea made by those who believe AGW is to point to the former Soviet Union and say they had virtually no interest in the environment which is true. See here: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Communi...
However, while the left didn't dream up AGW, they came to realize that AGW and other environmental issues were excellent tools for forwarding their agenda. See here: http://www.greenspirit.com/key_issues/the_log.cfm?...
Now that may be even worse. The left may actually care more about their ideals than the environment. Even left blogs acknowledge this: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/02/6-green-le...
This is a good read: http://www.xomba.com/environmentalism_vs_communism...
- ?Lv 510 years ago
I think the common definition of Communist is misleading in that it is not necessarily the end goal but a means to take control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93WvhaSllm0
Exactly where are you getting your "scientific evidence" to debunk deniers?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMjoPL6kIm8
Edit; Forget about infrared absorbtion. What's the theory? Increased temps? Google temp. record fraud.
Here's your foil hat.
- Mike SLv 610 years ago
Red-baiting is an American tradition that goes back as far communists themselves.
Over-simplifying arguments is a common tactic in both politics & advertising. (Hmm.....)
Does Lincoln corresponding with Marx make him a Communist?
No.
(Which actually happened, & he gave a few military commissions to radicals of similar stripes while rejecting a few of Marx's conclusions.)
Sadly arguing rationally with them does little, but keep it up!
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- Anonymous10 years ago
If it wasn't for global warming Chicago would still be under a mile of ice.
Unfortunately, Cro Magnon people learned to make fire and the smoke from their campsites melted the glaciers.
- Hey DookLv 710 years ago
It is one factor, but as you intimate, probably not than main factor.
Source(s): Oreskes and Conway, Merchants of Doubt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial http://www.newsweek.com/2007/08/13/the-truth-about... - A GuyLv 710 years ago
Maybe conservatives need at least one enemy to keep them united, and when communism became less viable, AGW became an alternative.
- Anonymous10 years ago
No idea.