Am I noticing some animosity in the classical forum?

I've been on Y!A for only 6 months or so but I can tell you, your reading of this forum is spot on.

I would say that a lot of contributors here know their business and what they're doing... What you're referring to is the 'work' of five contributors (and 'Top' at that), no more, that just have no clue about relating to others, pedagogical matters or simply behaving in a civil way. Problem is, these fellows (4 guys and a lady) are probably the most regular contributors on this forum. Three of those guys seem to be well-learned musicians that just happen to consider snobbery a cardinal virtue (two are simply unaware of that fact and the other, well, is...). As for the other two, Mr Not-Classical and Mrs. NYsomething, their case is hopeless and I suspect they're struggling with some psychological disorder, which is too bad. All in all, all five are clearly venting some deeply rooted frustration, the nature of which is unknown to us.

All this is joyless, of course. I've had my share of spats - mind you - over the last few months with two or three of these contributors who, day in day out, seemed to have gotten out of bed only to splat those teenagers and 'show' them. Pitiful. That's not the way, of course. They just don't get what their real role is - to bring more and more people to classical music, to-take-them-where-they-are (Einaudi, Yiruma, who cares - I still have students who want to learn Für Elise, am I to tell them I'm bored of teaching it after 30 years?) and take them somewhere else, not to show them they know nothing about it. As a teacher by profession, I must confess being sincerely disturbed by all that's going on here on Y!A - and its 13 million readers...

Contributing on Y!A is a hobby. But I guess there comes a sense of responsibility with it. Informing others is a priviledge that is based on the trust people put on us.

I think you're a great contributor and you have maturity beyond your age. We need people like you here. :-)

Best,

Raymond

Edit Add @ Jonathan: Of course you don't go from Yiruma to 'deep' Rachmaninoff in a straight line... That kind of thing takes *time* but I can assure you it IS in the realm of possibility. I've taught Music Literature and History for a number of years and I could write a book (and probably will some day, who knows...) about that kind of 'conversion'. Patience is the word here.

I have been reported for asking for prayer for other people and even reported after I got best answer. I reported 2 people men because they were very verbally abusive with my question and sexually perverted. I am a married woman and would havenone of that. I also took the liberty of blocking these people as well. I have learned choose only the battles to fight that you are wiling to lose. Pick and choose your battles carefully. No when to stand up for yourself and when to back off. Also I do give thumbs down to mean or sacrastic answers, but the report button I only use when the person is blanatnly abusive and I have wrote my reasons why. This is a relgion and spirituality forum where people come to learn and grow and ask questions that they may not be able to ask or feel comfortable asking anyone else. There is enough hurt, meanness and negativity in the world without adding to this to the R7S forum. Yes I am a christian. But that does not mean I have the right to be superior or act like I am better than anyone else. We are all called to love and encourage oneanother and I remind that to my nephew and nieces when they fight as well. People are reporting people yes but that is only a temeporary fix revenge is sweet but frogivness is even sweeter we need to pray for those on line who are hostile and reporting others simply because they did not like what they wrote. I say it is a temprary fix because it gives a sense of satifcation that the person got back at the person who worte the question but does not fix the heart condition. Peace this was a beautiful post thank you e4g

With the recommendations, of course, you cannot blame the Y!A Classical folk. We (perhaps only I) are bitter with Yiruma instrumental music overtaking as classical music. No . . . it is not. Yes, he learned theory and composition. If he composed a lot of character pieces that have depth in them, then maybe we can reconsider. I know this is a battle with an opponent WAY out of Yiruma's league: Chopin and Yiruma. Compare them. They say that Yiruma's pieces are Ballades (I hardly believe that they are because they aren't). Compare them to Chopin's 4 Ballades. Those 4 Chopin Ballades easily strikes Yiruma's compositions down.

Maybe if you now are a classical music connoisseur and LIVE in Y!A Classical, you will get exasperated at the thought that Yiruma is considered classical. Last year, I saw about twenty questions a week asking for recommendations from Yiruma. They don't even abide by the rules! The question has been asked before, why ask it again? With twelve year-olds as well. Y!A in general only allows 13 year olds to join. They may join in Yahoo! Kids or so.

Much like art, music cannot be appreciated by most people. They want easy-listening pieces that enables only 4-5 minutes of attention, ends "grandioso" or "leggiero" at some point. They'd rather listen to a Capra single, or a Lady Gaga song rather than a Beethoven sonata or a Mozart concerto.

If you made someone who listened to loud screamos all the time to soft Chopin pieces . . . that's a miracle. OR if you made someone who listened to Yiruma listen to a very deep Rachmaninoff, that's going to be a GREAT miracle.

My take on it all, despite what you might think of my last question, is to offer help if I can, ignore those who I know to be troublemakers, and suggest classical alternatives to their pop-artist of the week questions.

Painting with a broad brush, we're not hear to bash anyone. But it is tiring to hear the same question repackaged a dozen times in a month.

The improper use of the word "song" grates on me, but not so much that I have to call it out. Einaudi, Yiruma, Nyman, etc. have their place even though their music is not classical. I can understand that one not well versed in music might try to select the Classical category, and that's fine. Then again, Coldplay, Beyonce, Alica Keys, Metalica and other answers that are auto-directed to this category do little to endear me to an asker who 1. didn't bother to make a selection, 2. will be insolent about the answers received, 3. will not select a BA even if there is a perfect one given.

I'm all for offering up classical suggestions. I'm also all for teenagers actually acting on those suggestions and not slamming the door in our face because of their narrow focus of music.

I'm guessing that for many contributors letting the camels nose under the tent will spoil the whole of the board.

Keep it on the classical music track and everyone will have a more enjoyable time.

This very issue was addressed by another poster and there were people such as myself who stated that the majority of people who ask questions in this forum are young people in upper elementary school through high school who hear nothing but 'songs' on their musical devices. Anything that isn't rap, country-western or pop and is played on a piano or by an orchestra has to be classical in their minds.

Since this issue was aired and answered by many of those who are top contributors, I've noticed a change in the attitude towards such comments and questions. The answers are more positive and informative, trying to guide the young adults rather than yelling at them that they have posted in the wrong section or that a work without singing isn't a song but a piece or composition. As I stated in my post, we were all ignorant about classical music when we were younger and had to learn. I'm sure many of us called classical pieces "songs" and thought that anything played by an orchestra was either classical or a movie score.

to answer your question, yes, i did see sarcastic remarks on some questions, usually ones about popular music. I also notice that people who suggested answers that had to do with the question are thumbed down.

i suppose some people classify classical music as music between approx 1500-1900, so anything beyond that is not suppose to be in the classical section.

Maybe it's just a misunderstanding. People that ask the question might be level 1ish, and don't know the other sections. Maybe they just found the classical section more helpful then the other, or they think their question is classical (piano music) when it might belong to modern music. However, i don't see a section titled modern music, and piano music might be misplaced in other sections like pop music. (i actually don't know a lot of music sections, so i might be wrong)

I'd wish that people, like you say, show less animosity, and instead answer with a response that inspire people to look more into classical music. Perhaps in additional to the correct answer, the answerer can say "and this piece is a bit similar to this Bach piece...maybe you'll like it." or "next time maybe *this section* on yahoo answer will help more."

Won't that make you less sad?

what makes people angry is just that instrumental pop shouldn't really fit into the definition of classical music, so doesn't belong in the classical section. However, people get confused because piano music sound much like classical music, what better section to put it in, they ask themselves. So until a new section is created, people can offer additional answers that looks more into classical music, or direct them to the appropriate section, instead of sarcastic remarks. That will probably clear the misunderstanding.

One more thing, sarcastic remarks and sorts of animosity doesn't really correct the problem, it doesn't even help. Instead of that, maybe people should look for reasons to/and help instead. Like you said, "I want my generation to discover all these beautiful, untouched masterpieces, and I don't come across very many people that care enough to try."

thanks for reading, ehh ignore my uncertainties (maybes, perhaps) its *might* be a bad habit.

facts might be wrong, but i hope the message is a little clear.

Dear Picardy Nerd, Hi! Looks like you have rattled a few cages with your indepth question. First, I want to share that I do actually care about your name, your concerns, and your questions.

I have read all 12 responses and many of them are both interesting, conciliatory, and quite good, imho.

I am a lover of Classical Music all my life; that said, I also listen to many other styles of music, and always watch the Grammy Awards just so I can keep up with trends.

I am additionally very fond of Antonin Dvorak & noticed that you like him as well. So we certainly have that in common.

I try most of the time to be honest, kind, and diplomatic in my responses. I do admit that maybe twice I have given a short response such as---this is not asked in the correct category. Most of the time I have just skipped the question and not responded.

As far as Dvorak is concerned, I sincerely hope you have attended some live performances of his music.

I especially enjoy his "American Quartet", 2nd movement and am including a link!

All the best to you, Julian of N

It is constant, and the occasional instance comes up when a healthy reminder gets some of us back on track after months of far too much exposure to truly ill-mannered questions and snippy responses, as IJones has described so well.

There will be no changing the spots on some cats, though. One contributor is all but pathological about 'non-classical,' ventures into answering questions about newer classical music (for them most of the 20th century), often so certain that description of the piece including the tape of the bum singing a hymn "can not possibly be classical music," only to be proven wrong by the next informed answer that the piece being looked for is 'Jesus Blood Never Failed Me Yet,' by the British contemporary classical composer Gavin Bryars. Hey, accumulated points and badges or not, this is an open and 'un-vetted' forum.

Others, appallingly, feel free to bash some new kid knocking at the door with 'Bella's Lullaby' their only reference in hand, and instead of, as IJones does, try and gently recommend something classical guestimably near that askers reach, just slaps that new kid in the face and tells them they have terrible taste. I don't count that as a 'contribution.' That is, if any are interested, a violation. So, too, is only saying, "Wrong Category." Those so appalled, and it seems there are enough - have every path open to report those as a genuine violation of wrong category.

I agree with IJones when a poster doesn't bother to pick a category, and sorry, no thirteen year old of average intelligence really thinks a britney spears song is 'classical,' or is that green about figuring out software - they are all using facebook, without any real manual, as virtuosi.

I often bother to re-direct. I see no reason for a perceived affront when telling anyone that George Winston, Yann Tiersen, Carter Burwell, Jon Schmidt, Nils Frahm, etc. ... and the 'borderliners' Lodovico Eiunaudi, Wim Mertens and Michael Nyman are more pop music, and the inquiry would get better reception and fuller result in the Pop Music category. That's what those musicians are, after all. That is where their work is found interesting, is popular, pieces specifically known, and the party asking would get the best and most informative set of answers.

If you had wandered into the classical department of a library inquiring of same, the librarian would direct you to that part of the music section where you could find what you were looking for.

The fact that a well-versed and senior musician is providing that service should not be remarkable, but why on earth the crazy and hurt reaction that Lodovico's simple ditties are not worshiped at the altar of Apollo but another musical deity is sort of beyond me - often we see reactions here of immense outrage, as if we were 'de-legitimizing' the music by merely naming its correct genre. A perfunctory and polite steer, or redirect, info given, really should be taken within stride and without resentment. If you're concerned about the efficiency of 'spending' your points, you might remember next time to go to the more efficient category.

It really shows there is a Huge Inverse Snobbery in place among the pop music fans - greater than the real or mythologized Snobbery associated with classical music and its devotees. The pop music fans seem to want their favored music stamped with the seal of approval by the classical musicians, or recognized as 'classical.'

I find a lot of new-age music utterly indistinguishable one from the next, artist to artist, amateur 16 year-old teen to the next. I'm not bashing your taste telling you which genre it is, where to find it. For me to be at all conscious of half a dozen or more names of musicians who make it, I think, is already above and beyond any reasonable expectation and call of duty. Those askers most likely do not know or care about Emil Gilels, Dinu Lipatti, Alfred Brendel, Bill Evans or Thelonius Monk.

The very purpose of a Y/A category is so the user does not have to filter through numerous entries not pertinent to their subject of interest. It is natural to keep the classical department with things mainly classical - I think it / we already accommodate many off-topic questions, and answer them well and with respect.

There is no accounting for the characteristic behavior of any Y/A member ~ might as well expect a standard of one behavior from a random collection of individuals in a train station.

[ ADD: IF this were a monitored forum, the persistent 'not classical' contributor would get only one warning shot across the bow, and if repeated, the membership would be permanently terminated. All others who 'slip' would get similar. The down side? most neophytes would not qualify to be 'in.' Non-classical reference questions would be deleted by the monitor, and they wouldn't even have the door to knock upon available to them. }

Best regards.

I usually try to ignore the questions that have nothing to do with classical music and have been placed here because Y/A uses a poor algorithm for finding a category for questions or because the asker is simply ignorant (not meant as a pejorative but literally not being aware) as to what is classical music.

It does offend me that people mis-categorize questions, however that offense is usually not directed at the asker but at the sorry state music of education that would make it possible for anyone to do so in the first place. I often send such askers help information in email as a means of education.

Some people think that an introduction to light classical or instrumental pop can serve as a gateway into serious classical music but in my experience with dozens of such questions with the Yiruma and Einaudi crowd classical music is not what they want, and most of them when offered the more serious side of classical balk and say that's not what they want. Yiruma is a gateway drug for more Yiruma. To get the next generation interested in classical music they must listen to classical music.

Somewhat sadly, I have to empathize with you. Been posting for over three years now on this forum, and am quite familiar with that of which you speak.

I'll let you in on a secret; if you've not as yet become aware of the pitfalls participating on "Answers", can for some pose: a possible ADDICTION.

And should even the intelligent and well educated amongst us fall prey to it - and some do - it's been my experience that it can result in their evolving a....... ....... "short fuse", shall we say?

This often manifests as intolerance/impatience with the......."less" well-informed/toward the unknowledgeable.

And too, because a person happens to be a lover of CM, being so does not necessarily endow them with good manners, a sense of proper etiquette, nor diplomacy.

I hope this helps a little?

Alberich