Will the learned members be able to clear my doubts about Dice game in Mahabharata?

1. How many times Dice game was played ..... by Sakuni?

There are two dice game-episodes within the interval of few days.

Draupadi freed Pandavas after first dice game.

Duryodhana secured his doting father's reluctant and ominous approval to a plan to entice Yudhishthira once again to a game of dice for the second time.

2. How many times Yudhistra rolled/ handled the Dice and how many times Sakuni handled the dice .... in each game?

There is no mention of Yudhistra handled the dice in both the dice episodes of Vyasa Mahabharata.

Sakuni’s dice throwing is clearly mentioned in the first episode on three times, at the beginning and at the stake of Nakula.

At last, during the stack of Draupati, it is mentioned as Sakuni played the dice AGAIN.

Sakuni played the dice in the single throw of the second dice-game episode.

3. How many times did Yudhistra win ..... he lost in each game?

Yudhistra lost all the stakes in the first dice episode and also lost the only stake in the second dice episode.

First episode has twenty stakes by Yudhistra and has thus twenty dice throws.

4. Did Yudhistra handle the Sakuni's Dice or a different Dice for his play?

There is no mention of Yudhistra handled the dice in both the dice game-episodes of Vyasa Mahabharata.

5. What was the stake Yudhistra pledged in his second game?

The stake played for the second dice episode was that the defeated party should go WITH HIS BROTHERS into EXILE to the forest and remain there for TWELVE YEARS and spend the THIRTEENTH YEAR INCOGNITO. If they were recognised in the thirteenth year, they should go AGAIN into exile for twelve years.

Needless to say, Yudhishthira met with defeat on this occasion also, and the Pandavas took the vows of those who are to go to the forest.

6 Why Yudhistra did not stop playing after the first game?

A messenger was accordingly dispatched after Yudhisthira who had taken his departure for Indraprastha. He came up with Yudhishthira before the latter had reached his destination and invited him on behalf of king Dhritarashtra to come back to play dice for a second time.

On hearing this invitation, Yudhishthira said: "Good and evil come from destiny and cannot be avoided. If we must play again we must, that is all. A challenge to dice cannot in honor be refused. I must accept it." Truly, as Sri Vyasa says: "There never was and never can be an antelope of gold! Yet, Rama went in vain pursuit of what seemed one. Surely, when calamities are imminent, the judgment is first destroyed."

Dharmaputra returned to Hastinapura and set again for a game with Sakuni, though everyone in the assembly tried to dissuade him.

He seemed a mere pawn moved by Kali to relieve the burden of the world.

7. When Sri Krishna could help Draupati from humiliation, why He did not stop Yudhistra from playing Dice game?

(i) Lord Krishna was not present at Hastinapura during the game of dice.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03013.htm

(ii) Nobody can beat Lord Krishna in Gambling (Srimad Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 10, Verse 36).

IF Lord Krishna was at Hastinapura and IF Yadhishtra preferred his Uncle Krishna to play dice on his behalf, Mahabharata story could be different. The truth is the real Sutradhari Krishna took care of the course of the story.

8) Edited: Comments:

Rules of dice games:

(i) Available facts:

Yudhishthira's first stake was wealth of pearls and Duryodhana first and only stake was many jewels and much wealth.

Afterwards stakes were mentioned only for Yudhishthira.

Sakuni rolled or played the first dice throw, fifteenth throw (Nakula) and twentieth throw (Draupati).

Before the Draupati was won Sakuni said, ‘Bid with with Draupati and by winning that You can be relieved by yourself.’

(ii) Assumptions made:

The first throw was done on mutual consent.

If the thrower wins any round, he would continue to throw for the next throw.

The stake is to be told by the loser alone to the subsequent bid. (If the loser wins in the next game he could have gained previous lost bid).

(iii) Deductions:

Yudhishthira was ready with His dice or play with Sakuni's dice, but He could not do that because he did not win even a single game.

These rules were rudiments and did not mention in Vyasa Mahabharata!!

9) Edited:

The earlier answer was based on the indirect evidence and with the Tamil Version, Villi Bharatam.

This answer is based on the English Translation of Kisari Mohan Ganguli

Here every stake ends with,

'Hearing these words, Sakuni ready with the dice, adopting unfair means, said unto Yudhishthira. 'Lo, I have won!'

Yudhishthira was ready with His dice but did not cast it due to the assumed rule of the game, his hands could be burned as per Bheema's thought.

In this answer seeming contradictions are set right.

A compromise for both views and this is purely based on Vyasa Mahabharata.

I go through all answers.Sometimes I feel, few answers can and eligible to be given a BA. Then I wait for questioner's choice of selecting a BA. I give a rethinking on his/her choice of whether the selection is apt or not. What I observed was, generally the questioners are quite matured and give a balanced judgement, this is not under rating the quality of other qualitative answers. Everything is fine. Points are secondary. Points are just to encourage the participants by y/a [I suppose].

You have mentioned, "Dice game which is the root of cause of Mahabharata war".

It is one of the causes but not the root cause. Bhisma considered himself as the root cause for the war and confessed in front of Krishna. However, there are many causes- some says Draupadi, to some the aspirations of Dhritarastra and his son Duryodhana, Vyasa remarks himself Krishna as the root cause.

As the epic tries to show us what is moral, it has explained minute detail of every crime committed by a man. Ultimately it is told that only to kill the evil doers, to reorganise mankind, to establish reality, it is the drama(Leela) of God.

It seems, had Drupadi not remarked Duryodhana as "blind son of blind father" this would have not occurred.

Had Dhritarastra been not asked to declare Judhisthir as the Prince, this would not have fought.

Had Bhisma not vowed not to marry, not to become king, not to give birth to successor, not to part with the throne of Hastinapur even at the cost of ADharma, this would not have taken place.

Had Barbaric the son of Bhima been allowed to fight, this was have ended only with three arrows.

Had Balaram joined this would have another thing.

1.This question is a chakra vyuga. once entry made, it is difficult to come out. However, i floated a question and i received one answer which i selected best.

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=201...

so, dice game played three times between dharma and shakuni.

2. 3 times.

3.Yudhishtra never won and he lost everything.

4. No..Yudhishtra never changed the dice. He used the same dice entire games.

5. Bheema!! Yudhisthira, further stimulated him to play and regain the lost kingdom. Hope never dies for a gambler! Yudhisthira asked Shakuni to continue the game. When asked as to what he would put at stake, Yudhisthira replied: "Bhima"! !!

6. Insulting words from Shakuni made him to play again. The king Yudhisthira was stripped off his kingdom and he became an ordinary citizen! Mocking him further, uncle Shakuni challenged Yudhisthira, "You have lost your kingdom and all money. It is better you say quits and leave this palace. We shall allow you to lead a life of ordinary lay person in Hastinapur."The insulting words, in stead of dissuading Yudhisthira, further stimulated him to play and regain the lost kingdom.

7. While Duriyodhana suggested Shakuni, Yudhishtra too thought of Krishna.After slaying Sisupala, Krishna had to fight with Sisupala's friend Salva. After defeating him only Krishna had learnt for the first time of the events at Hastinapura, the game of dice and the exile of the Pandavas. At once be set out for the forest where the Pandavas were living.

Sri Krishna said: "When this calamity befell you, I was in Dwaraka. Had I been in Hastinapur, I would never have allowed this fraudulent game of dice to take place. Uninvited, I would have gone there and stirred up Drona, Kripa and the other elders to a sense of duty. I would, at all costs, have prevented this destructive play of dice.

When Sakuni was cheating you, I was fighting King Salva who had besieged my city. It was only after I had defeated him that I came to know of the game of dice and the subsequent sordid story. It grieves me that I am not able to remove your sorrows immediately but you know, some water must be lost before a broken dam is restored."

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=201...

I am not so expert, however i answered since i like this question.

Yudhistira played dice games repeatedly till he pledged Draupadi as last item and lost

In all the games all times dice was rolled by Shakuni on behalf of Duryodhana

Yudishtira lost all games but his gamblers instinct did not prevent him to stop at any point.

Shakuni used special dice made out of the bones of his co born who were killed by duryodhana.His mission was eradicate the Kaurava clan.The dice would give any number he wanted at anytime.

Yudhistira could not win even a single game.Like people going to horse race and loosing all plates.

yudhistira pledged his weath, kingdom, his brothers and finally himself and lastly Draupadi for which he had no right as he was slave himself.

Yudhistira had the defect of gamblers nature. He could not stop.

Lord is neutral to our karmas. We have our own discretion. Yudhistira who was supposed to be wise had his discretion to stop.Destiny of individual or a society plays its role in shaping things.(just as Hitler managed to kill ten million jews and run agruesome war for 5 years killing 44million people).

Lor helped Draupati only when she surrendered herself totally at his feet and he has promised(Sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam sharanam bhajeth--------)

"Sri Krishna allowed the course of the Dice Game purposely. Being all pervading God, wherever He was He would have known The Dice Game"

i will answer only this question as all others have been answered properly

In

Chapter 11, Verse 26-27-28-29-30-31. Arjuna sees the future within krishna

All the sons of Dhrtarastra along with their allied kings, and Bhisma, Drona and Karna, and all our soldiers are rushing into Your mouths, their heads smashed by Your fearful teeth. I see that some are being crushed between Your teeth as well.

As the rivers flow into the sea, so all these great warriors enter Your blazing mouths and perish.

I see all people rushing with full speed into Your mouths as moths dash into a blazing fire.

O Visnu, I see You devouring all people in Your flaming mouths and covering the universe with Your immeasurable rays. Scorching the worlds, You are manifest.

after this Arjuna asked the purpose of krishna directly

O Lord of lords, so fierce of form, please tell me who You are. I offer my obeisances unto You; please be gracious to me. I do not know what Your mission is, and I desire to hear of it.

for this Lord krishna said

Chapter 11, Verse 32. -33-34-

The Blessed Lord said: Time I am, destroyer of the worlds, and I have come to engage all people. With the exception of you [the Pandavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain

See Krishna already had planned all this that is why he did not prevent the dice game.He wanted us to get Gita so that we know how we live.

Therefore get up and prepare to fight. After conquering your enemies you will enjoy a flourishing kingdom. They are already put to death by My arrangement, and you, O Savyasaci, can be but an instrument in the fight.

savyasaci is another name of arjuna and here lies the answer to your question.You see krishna cleary states that Arjuna was an instrument in the fight so were the kauravas and pandavas

The Blessed Lord said: All the great warriors--Drona, Bhisma, Jayadratha, Karna--are already destroyed. Simply fight, and you will vanquish your enemies.

Dear Revathy Madam

You know about me as a Learner. According to me Two scholars have answred this beautiful question. I merely have doubt If Yudhistra lost the first dice game how come he accept the second dice game? If person wins in first one he would incline in the second is logic according to me. As first dice game would be friendly one. As I assume. If so Sakuni would made Yudistra to win Once. This victory may help Yudistra to incline and accept the second dice Game. These are my assumptions. Highly Educated people please clarify them.

Edit:

it may have 3 dice games - assumption.

My Answer to Q

7. When Sri Krishna could help Draupati from humiliation, why He did not stop Yudhistra from playing or helped him to win the Dice game?

Well when Duchchaadhana remove the single vastra of Draupati. She surrendered herself to Lord Krishna and Called from the core of Heart. Hence He Helped Her. Here clearly you can understand Krishna wasn't present there and wasn't invited by anyone.

Edit: - 12th December 2011, Time IST 03:10 Pm

Well The First Dice Game where with bid of Pearl Necklace. Where Yudistra won the Game. It happens in Rajasuya Yagna Meet. I some where read it in Vyasa Bhagvatam I will recollect it soon. I didnt find any about first Dice Game in Mahabharatha. As Author is one hence I took glimpse in Srimad Bhagvatham. Please wait I will be Back soon after consulting with Sri Vidya Sir.

============================================================================

Baby Beauty

you are asking the learned members to clear your doubt. Here one learned member says Yudhishtra played dice game and he himself handled, he puts good points for ''yes touched''.. Another learned member asking spelling for ''dice'' and he puts no points for his ''no touched''..so, now you need 3rd umpire in your question game.Like BB i am also a LKG.

@Edited: i find difference in your ''To sum up'' now, and your answer PRR sir's question. Anyway, it is the right of the asker to choose any answer. But, in this question the answer of Srividyarajagopalanji is great than others. Though you appreciate AG, it is only a casual answer and not deep rooted but pave way to arrive some conclusions.This question is getting ''beauty'' because of Srividyaji answer.In the coming future, there will also be several dice game questions, we are going to see and also going to answer. i certainly believe that this question and answer will take a major example to those questions.You should not let down great pandits like srividyaji since they are only a guiding force presently available in this forum.

Dear Revathy Ji,

as you named me I am answering.

In my answer or in y interactive details to question I put , I gave what all I know and there IS NOTHING I CAN ADD HERE NOW.

But I will try to answer your question point by point.

1.Yudhistira played (or participated) TWICE in DICE GAME , against Duryodhana on whose behalf Shakuni rolled the DICE.

2.Yudhistira never even touched the Dice .So He did not Roll the DICE AT LEST ONCE.

3.Yudhistira did not win at least ONCE.

4.In these TWO DICE GAMES Yudhistira did not ROLL THE DICE EVEN FOR A SINGLE TIME.

5.In the Second Dice Game , YUDHISTIRA DID NOT PLEDGE ANY THING AT ALL. This second dice game was planned intelligently by Shakuni and Duryodhana etc.Shakuni announced THIS.

'' this time ONLY ONE TIME ROLLING DICE.The Loser will go with all his brothers , dressed in animal skin for 12 years into forest and followed by another Year to be spent amongst inhabitants (where people live) INCOGNITO , Agnaata vaasam.If found or identified in that period of one year, in agnaata vaasam , again 12 + 1 year agnaata vaasam they have (loser) to do.

Shakuni told Yudhistira ''Here are DICE TAKE AND ROLL AND WIN''

but when all sat for the GAME SHAKUNI ROLLED THE DICE AND SHOUTED ''LO, I WON''

6. While pandavaas were going in forest towards hastinapur, having been given all the kingdom they lost in first game by dritarashtra, a messenger AGAIN CAME FROM DRITARASTRA INVITING YUDHISTIRA FOR THE DICE GAME.

A King shall not refuse the Invitation from another king.It was Raja Dharma.So Yudhistira ( who already knew , warned by Vyaas that thirteen years going to be bad days for them) came and sat there.

7.Sri Krishna was busily engaged in a war else where so HE could not help them This Sri Krishna TOLD CLEARLY TO YUDHISTIRA.

I answered all your 7 points.

I stick to my committed answer or details given already.

THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY.

SECOND DICE GAME;

'' "Sakuni then said,--'The old king hath given ye back all your wealth. That is well. But, O bull of the Bharata race, listen to me, there is a stake of great value. Either defeated by ye at dice, dressed in deer skins we shall enter the great forest and live there for twelve years passing the whole of the thirteenth year in some inhabited region, unrecognised, and if recognised return to an exile of another twelve years; or vanquished by us, dressed in deer skins ye shall, with Krishna, live for twelve years in the woods passing the whole of the thirteenth year unrecognised, in some inhabited region. If recognised, an exile of another twelve years is to be the consequence. On the expiry of the thirteenth year, each is to have his kingdom surrendered by the other. O Yudhishthira, with this resolution, play with us, O Bharata, casting the dice.''

Here Shakuni says to take die and CAST to Yudhistira ( Aswerer`s words)

Nexi;

'' "And Yudhishthira said,--'How can, O Sakuni, a king like me, always observant of the uses of his own order, refuse, when summoned to dice? Therefore I play with thee."

"Sakuni answered,--'We have many kine and horses, and milch cows, and an infinite number of goats and sheep; and elephants and treasures and gold and slaves both male and female. All these were staked by us before but now let this be our one stake, viz., exile into the woods,--being defeated either ye or we will dwell in the woods (for twelve years) and the thirteenth year, unrecognised, in some inhabited place. Ye bulls among men, with this determination, will we play."

"O Bharata, this proposal about a stay in the woods was uttered but once. The son of Pritha, however, accepted it and Sakuni took up the dice. And CASTING them he said unto Yudhishthira,--'Lo, I have won."

Shakuni did not give DICE , HE CAST OR ROLLED THEM ( answerer`s words)

Link; http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m02/m02075.htm

Let us not draw OUR CONCLUSIONS .What is in Vyaasa Bharata is important.

Edited; I am not a Scholar or expert BUT A STUDENT HERE.

Can you Imagine Bheema so harshly swearing to Burn the hands of Yudhistira, A dharma moorthy.Never Bheema had behaved in such a way against his Eldest brother .

Please KINDLY read these VERSES from vyaasa Bharatam , Vanaparvam (sabhapravam) chapter 68.

''vaahanaani dhanamchaiva kavachaanyaayudhaanicha,

Raajyaamaatmaavayamchaiva kaitave?ynahrutamparaih'' 68-3

'' nachameytatra kopobhoothsarvasyeshohinobhavaan,

Imam tvatikramam manyey Droupadeeyatra panyatey'' 68-4

'' YeYshaahyanarhateebaalaa Paandavaan praapya kouravaih',

Tvatkrutey klishyateykshudrai rnushamsairakrutaatmabhi.'' 68-5

'' Asyaahkrutey manyurayam tvayi raajan nipaatyatey,

BAHUUTEY sampradhakshaami Shadevaagni maanaya .'' 68-6

Unable to Bear the humiliation to Droupadi,HE FELT HIS BAAHUS were USELESS AND WANTED TO BURN THEM

I am NOT A SCHOLAR OR AN EXPERT I am a Learner here

SPACE IS NOT PERMITTING ME ANY MORE PLEASE

well i am also curious. i will try to find out. but try to do your research by your own caliber.