Question regarding objective morality vs the Bible, god, free will etc for christians?

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

- Epicurus

1.God can't be both benign AND all powerful, because unavoidable 'evils' (assuming you consider murder, rape, children starving, etc. to be evil) happen every minute as a direct result of him giving us free will. If he has the ability to stop them, but doesn't because of free will, then in my mind he is NOT benign because he let it happen because he has the ability to intervene(assuming he is omnipotent).

He is benign to those who trust in Him. It's an easy message for me to tell you about, because I've accepted it. When I was raped by my dad, I didn't know God, but only that God was around from a prior experience that I had. I was about 7 years old at the time. God did deliver me from him when I was almost 9 years old, and that was a good thing. We might suffer, but somehow God keeps us going. When I was 24, I decided to give him a chance to run my life instead of committing suicide.

2. Also, if you don't follow traditions such as stoning adulterers, raiding villages because of blasphemy, and killing people who work on Sunday, then clearly your morality is somewhat objective because it doesn't come from the Bible. If your morality is objective, how do you reconcile all of the evils that go on today that God has the ability to prevent?

Those Laws are from a different covenant. You can call them traditions if you want to, that's okay, but the emphasis of what it means when you recognize covenants is helpful to understand the difference. That's what hangs a lot of other Christians. They fail to see that there is a big difference between working for your righteousness under the old covenant, and trusting God for righteousness under the new covenant. They keep wanting to mix the two, and it doesn't' work that way.

Concerning objective morality, I don't think such a thing exists, except that I recognize that God's subjective morality has become my criteria to know that I can't live up to it. That's why Grace through faith is so important to me; I'm derelict, and need grace. The other Christians confuse that as well, and confuse morals with righteousness. That also doesn't work that way. Morals is supposed to be good things to adopt in order to treat others well and myself well. Righteousness is beyond us. And it makes me sad that there are so many Christians out there who are spreading a sucky message of works (of the Law and works as if they were the same as righteousness), because what Jesus, Pail and Peter talked about was different, and people are getting confused about everything.

EDIT:

I was witnessed to by a very non-traditionalist. So your suspicions might work for other Christians, but my experience was that I wasn't raised in the church. And as far as bad things happening, :the rain falls on the just and the unjust" verse isn't just talking about rain drops. I learn from what happens to me. The bad and the good. I know where the bad comes from, and I can;t point my finger too harshly elsewhere, it only brings evil upon myself. I realize that I am guilty of enough bad of my own. Grace is a world often used, but never really understood until a person accepts what it means in the full display of what God promised. I live to see God's word fulfilled. In fact, I seek to be a contributor of the fulfillment, if God will have me.

I have the free will to eat whatever I want, and if I eat junk food all the time my cholesterol would be high and I would have a high chance of Heart disease, who's fault is that?

I have seen mother's that allow their children to run outside in the cold without warm clothes and later the kids are sick. who's fault is that?

I know a man that went into the military as an infantry man to war and never came back, much respect but he didn't have to.

I'm just saying we have free will and things happen because it's our own fault.

Literally, the History of Earth will always be remembered when we are in heaven to remind us why sin is bad and the consequences it brings. This is all about getting doubts out of all God's creatures "what if I do... or ....?" so we can look back in history and know the answer. Instead of worshipping God cluelessly, without knowing why God's laws are good and are for the best of us.

I really do believe it's our own fault, never in my life something bad has happened because it was not my fault, if you hear of bad things happening well I believe we don't have the full story so we can't know why certain things happen. As a result of our actions, God wants us to learn of the consequences that we suffer from so we don't do what is wrong again.

Many people are so scared of dying that they believe in an afterlife. This fear is what drives most people to believe. If taken literally the bible makes little sense but if thought of as a moral guide then it helps many people find meaning and purpose in their life. This is easier to accept than we're all on our own randomly drifting through life. The plain truth is that people have a desire to be special and believing that they are chosen is a way to fill this desire. How about this nugget, this year 4 of the people seeking the nomination for president can tell you when and where they were when god told them they would be president. Yes god actually told them they would be president. Imagine how they will explain it when 3 of them lose? I bet they won't skip a beat. Test of faith or whatnot. Nice south park reference btw.

If you do not stop your child from making every mistake and error then does that mean that you do not love her? Of course not.

Free will would have absolutely no value if God did not let us make both good and bad decisions.

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Jesus (God the Son) kind of changed things between the Old and New Testaments.

Morality (what is loving and unloving) is the same but the harsh punishments used by a tribal people to survive in the wilderness and surrounded by enemies are no longer required.

Matthew 19:17-78 states:

Now someone approached him and said, "Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?"

He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

For Christians, Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses.

Christians are not held to the ceremonial parts of the Mosaic Law concerning circumcision, dietary purity, temple worship and sacrifices.

Christians are still held to the moral law of God, some of which is expressed in the Ten Commandments.

However Jesus took the Ten Commandments to the next step summarizing them into the two Great Commandments:

• You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.

• You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

And teaching things like

• Everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

• Everyone is our neighbor including our enemies.

Therefore we have to go much farther than the original recipients of the Ten Commandments ever dreamed.

For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, part 3, section 2: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2.shtml

With love in Christ.

All that you are stating here is that your morals are not the same as God's morals. You like doing things your own way. And he allows you that privilege. But he cannot reward you with eternal life in that case.

You also make the case that just because evil flourishes that God is not omnipotent. And that simply is not so. God judges all sin - every single one of them.

Evil comes from the hearts of men - not from God. God will judge evil men.

Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.

That, my friend, is omnipotence.

If you walk in on a master house builder in the middle of building a master piece house.

Do you criticize his ability to build because his house does not have walls?

Or do you wait for him to finish before passing judgement?

God is powerful, but his has limited his power to human free will.

Because so much evil is caused by human choices, undoing is a bit more complicated than waving a wand.

It requires changing hearts, changing the hearts of free agents, changing the hearts of people who can reject you.

That, is a delicate, slow, and subtle process.

But it is a process that has been at work, for those who have the eyes to see human history.

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Well, whatever it takes to maintain your skepticism right?

You asked a question, I answered it.

You can reject the truth if you'd like because it doesn't suit your paradigm of reality.

But a word: When your paradigm is in conflict with truth. The wise change their paradigm.

There are two kinds of wills: The will that you'd like to have accomplished and the will that will be done. Gods will is that everyone is safe, painless and rich, and healthy, etc. But as for people who harm others, thats their choice. God gave us free choice over our actions. Its just like who goes to heaven. God's will is that everyone goes to heaven, but it won't happen unless: 1) someone tells others about him, and 2) you choose to believe. Its all a choice thing. But gods will for everyone is to go to heaven, and while were here on this earth, to have peace, but some people choose otherwise.

God is very much NOT "benign"......"vengeance is mine" sayeth The LORD......... but those things you cite are for God to decree..... and he did at that time...... those of The True Church are bound to follow the instruction of Jesus The Christ and His example....... if/when God decrees that I am to "stone" anyone, or smite them in any way..... at God's decree..... I will........ but it is not for me to determine God's will to that degree...... God must make it clear.... and that has not occurred for at least the last aprox. 2,000yrs.................. that said......... there is nothing in The Word and Will of God or the instruction of His Son, that prohibits self defense against those who try to usurp God's Authority.......... if some one is sworn to kill me by the decree of some so-called god..... than I am free to smite them as required......

the details of all that you ask about would take up far too much space and not be allowed on YA...... if you are looking for a one size. short sentence answer to your satisfy your inquiry..... you will not get it from any one who Knows The Truth........ you need to know God to even start to understand............... and you deny God....... so you will not understand any honest response in God's name concerning His Word and Will for man-kind

If objective morality exists, I wonder what it says about killing innocent firstborn children just because the leader of their country is a jerk.