Do Americans honestly believe that hold a right, god- given or constitutional, to bear arms?

people feel they have a bit of power with a gun,and they come up with all kinds of excuses for it 'safety' being the favourite, as if it explains why any rational person wants a gun in their hands

it doesnt matter about the stats,

america is a big country and will have a lot more numbers than other countries

gun crime is their number one, and same as britains is knife crime, britain changed the law to deal with it, america doesnt

thats the difference

so apparantly that 'god given right' seems more important to many americans than being actually safe and helping the problem

>>Do Americans honestly believe that hold a right, god- given or constitutional, to bear arms?<<

The highest court in the land said it was so:

"In a 5-4 decision, the [Supreme] Court held that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self- defense within the home. The Court based its holding on the text of the Second Amendment, as well as applicable language in state constitutions adopted soon after the Second Amendment."

http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2007/2007_07_2...

>>**quixotec: I'm not even sure that argument made sense...<<

He's laughing at your poor phrasing ("countries with the rights to bear arms have drastically higher fatality rates that ones that don't"). Obviously, everyone dies at some point, regardless of gun rights. You'll say, "Oh, I meant GUN fatalities", and of course, if no one has guns, no one will have a gun-related death, but that has the same logic as, "If no one has cars, no one will have a car-related death" and "If no one goes skiing, no one will have a ski-related death."

1) Do Americans honestly believe that hold a right, god- given or constitutional, to bear arms?

It is not a matter of belief; it is a matter of documented fact. That right **is** guaranteed to American citizens by the U.S. Constitution.

2) The statistics are overwhelming: it is indisputable that countries with the rights to bear arms have drastically higher fatality rates that ones that don't.

Absolutely correct. That does not change the *fact* that Americans have the constitutionally-guaranteed right to bear arms!

You are confusing the concept of "rights" with some other issue - moral justification, perhaps.

Do I think the Constitution should be changed with regard to this issue? Absolutely.

However, until it **is** changed, Americans will, in fact, have the right to bear arms. Americans will have the right to bear arms until that right is taken away from them - either legally (by a change of law) or forcibly (by military conquest) - and I suspect military conquest is not likely considering that Americans have the right to bear arms!

- Jim

I can't let NDMA's astonishing mathematical skills go unremarked:

You claim Britain has 9.64 murders per capita. In other words, for every person living in Britain, there are 9.64 murders! How is that possible? If there was one murder per capita, everyone would have been murdered by the end of the year so can you have 9.6 per capita?

Do you even know how to use a calculator? Your "600 murders / 62,218,761 = 9.64 per capita" is from your calculator; the answer it gave to your calculation was 9.64 e-6 or 0.00000964. Youfaiuled to notice the "e-6", or 10 to the power -6

But anyway, you got your calculations wrong by dividing crimes by population; dividing population by crimes would have given you a better answer. So, using your raw figures (which I can't be bothered checking)...

Great Britain has one murder per 103,697 of the population

USA has one murder per 23,623 of the population

USA has one gun-related murder per 34986 of the population

SUMMARY: You are over four times as likely to be murdered in the USA as in Britain, and you are c.50% more likely to be killed by a gun in the USA than to be killed by any means at all in the UK.

In England, during the recent riots, there was an incident where a man called police because rioters were trashing his property, and threatening him personally. After repeated attempts to contact police, the police never showed up. The man, with a sporting gun, shot an offender. He was jailed.

My question to you is.....would you have preferred this man to have been killed, because of lack of police response? It's not like he didn't try, he did. Did this man have a right to property, and above all, his life? Is not life a "God-given" right?

Your statistics are not truthful. Au contraire. In the United States, states that have reasonably lax gun laws show a significant drop in violent crimes. Cities such as New York City, Chicago, San Francisco and Los Angeles, who have the strictest gun laws in the country, also have the highest violent crime rates. That is a statistical fact. In Atlanta, Georgia, where there are more lax gun laws, the violent crime rate is substantially less than Detroit, who has horrible restrictions on gun ownership. Due to budget decreases, many cities have been forced to lay off thousands of police officers, Detroit being one of them. Oakland California being another.

Our Founding Fathers of our Constitution not only provided American citizens with the right to bear arms for personal self defense, but also to protect its citizens from a Federal government stepping outside of it's Enumerated Powers. It was a safeguard against tyranny that no other country on earth has, including England.

The scary part is that in some state like the on I live in don't even have a waiting period for purchasing firearms. But as soon as you want to crack down on gun control every NRA member (like, half the effing country) rises up screaming FREEDOM! Ugh it's so asinine sometimes. Everybody wants freedom but as soon as something goes wrong, oh it's the governments fault. Wait why is this in R&S? Nevermind. Point is a lot of things in America are @ss backwards yet somehow we're still the greatest country in the world and our leader is the leader of the Free World. How? I wish I knew. Especially with 3 TRILLION dollars in dept. But that's a whole other subject.

Not only do law abiding US citizen have an inalienable right, that right is also protected by our Constitution. With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are only 'subjects' of the government.

Let me educate you on what happens when the people lose the right to keep and bear arms.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953,

about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded

up and exterminated.

------------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5

million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and

exterminated. ------------------------------

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total

of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves

were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million

political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and

exterminated.

------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000

Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and

exterminated.

---- ------------- -------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000

Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and

exterminated.

------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one

million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up

and exterminated.

-----------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century

because of gun control: 56 million.

@ Mace. Speaking of asinine, can you explain how a waiting period would reduce crime? I own many firearms, so what good is a waiting period, and just what could be accomplished by making wait 15 days for me to get another firearm?

What is wrong with FREEDOM, and what do you have against FREEDOM? If it bother you that much, you could always become a citizen if one of those countries that doesn't allow freedom.

From my source:

It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.

Why thank you John J. I stand corrected - Was a late night:)

The right to bear arms is a wonderful right, and must continue for freedoms sake. If the Syrians had the right to bear arms their government wouldn't be killing thousands of them right now.

Statistics lie, just like unemployment statistics lie. And when your government comes over your house to take you away as slave labor to the FEMA camp you'll be saying shoulda, woulda, coulda.