What rules does everyone play by?

This is a good question. I play by any rule set that closely follows the WPA (world pool-billiard association.) APA rules are still vastly superior to the garbage that most people use in bars. Still, I have several issues with APA rules.

-I don't like that an 8-ball on the break is played as a win, or a loss if the cue ball scratches along with the 8. To me, this goes against the spirit of 8-ball. The goal is to pocket all of one group of balls before legally pocketing the 8. Making the 8 on the break doesn't fulfill any of these requirements.

-I don't like that you are restricted to the group of balls that you made on the break unless you made one of each.

-Why do you have to physically mark the pocket in which you intend to pocket the 8-ball? Why can't you just call it like any other shot? Oh that's right, you don't have to designate ball and pocket in the APA. Which brings me to...

-I don't like playing slop. You should have to designate a ball and a pocket.

-It's not listed in the rule book, but isn't there also a penalty for playing a safety in APA? I've heard that players are limited on playing "defensive shots" so they have to disguise them as missed shots.

In general, the APA is closer to world-standardized (WPA) rules than house rules (CRAP). I like that the APA has you lag for the break. I like that fouls result in ball-in-hand anywhere on the table. I like that they actually acknowledge things like double-hits and cushion contacting requirements.

One of my main issues with any pool league is this issue of counting balls. I absolutely hate it when a person/team wins a match on ball count and not on the number of games won. 8-ball is like a chess game. It's about who legally pockets the 8 ball, like chess is about who takes down the king. It doesn't matter how many pieces you or your opponent have left on the board when you take down his king. That's why I get frustrated when I overhear a game going on where a guy runs down 7 balls and misses the 8 and all his friends pat him on the back to complement him on his "great run". It doesn't matter because any decent 8-ball player will take full advantage of this situation and likely run the table or use any or their up to 7 balls to hide him from his 8 ball and probably get ball-in-hand. APA is not the only league that is guilty of this, so I'm not singling them out.

I like the idea of counting balls...if we're playing straight pool.

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I wanted to thank Vegas Matt for his clarifications. I don't really know how the handicapping system works, but that sandbagging issue that you mentioned is my concern. I know you're not limited in the number of safties, but as you say that does get factored into your handicap. I would think that win/loss percentage should be enough.

I probably was confusing APA 9 ball with the ball count issue. However, a lot of local 8-ball leagues do have a ball count. I can give you an example of how ball counts mess things up. Let's say we have team A versus team B. They are scheduled to play seven games. Legally pocketing the 8-ball is worth ten points. The loser gets credit for each ball that they pocket, up to 7 points. Team A wins 4 games and loses the last three with zero balls pocketed for a total score of 40 points. Team B wins 3 games and has all 7 balls pocketed on each of their losses. That gives team B a score of 58 points. I know this point system sounds weird, and this is probably where I was confusing APA. I stand corrected.

I'll give you another example of why I don't like 8-ball played without designating ball and pocket. Let's say you are solids and you are shooting the 6 ball in the corner pocket with the intention of breaking out a cluster with the cue ball. You miss the 6 but in the process of breaking out the cluster you end up pocketing the 2 ball in the opposite corner. Bogus.

I play in some tournaments where they use true-rolling cue balls on Valley tables. In the event of a cue ball scratch, they keep a couple of extra cue balls with the table so you don't have to pay another dollar to get the cue ball out. A possible solution to this 8 ball on the break business might be to keep an extra 8 ball with the table. Just a thought.

Again, I'm glad we can have these discussions. It's good to hash this stuff out with knowledgable players.

Wpa Rules

When I play with my friends, I play WPA rules, and prefer them. But I'm in the APA too, so that's what I play 'mostly.' I just wanted to address some of straight's concerns.

-I don't like that an 8-ball on the break is played as a win, or a loss if the cue ball scratches along with the 8. To me, this goes against the spirit of 8-ball. The goal is to pocket all of one group of balls before legally pocketing the 8. Making the 8 on the break doesn't fulfill any of these requirements.

Although most bars open the tables to allow unlimited play, APA's official stance (and the way they play at Nationals) is that players must pay for individual games. Taking away the 8 on the break win unnecessarily and unfairly requires players to pay for extra games. That's the purpose of the rule. I understand the stance of not wanting to decide the game on the break, but penalizing players monetarily for making a good break is far worse.

-I don't like that you are restricted to the group of balls that you made on the break unless you made one of each.

Yes, this is a stupid rule. But the purpose is understandable. It is meant to decrease break and runs by highly skilled players. This seems silly, but the APA is a recreational league, it's not meant to be a showcase for top talent like other leagues and tournaments. So in the end, it is a better way to play for the league's intended purpose.

-Why do you have to physically mark the pocket in which you intend to pocket the 8-ball? Why can't you just call it like any other shot? Oh that's right, you don't have to designate ball and pocket in the APA. Which brings me to...

I don't know why anyone would take issue with this. It's a simple clarification of the called pocket to limit disputes between players. In regular league matches, many players agree to just call it anyway.

-I don't like playing slop. You should have to designate a ball and a pocket.

I hate the term slop. It's just not a call shot game. Just like 9 Ball. In fact, until very recently (last couple of years) the posted WPA rules allowed for call shot or non-call shot in 8 Ball as well. It's really not a big deal. People make waaaay too much of it. Especially bad players (not calling you a bad player, they just seem to whine about it excessively).

-It's not listed in the rule book, but isn't there also a penalty for playing a safety in APA? I've heard that players are limited on playing "defensive shots" so they have to disguise them as missed shots.

Not true. Safeties must be marked on the score sheet for proper handicapping, and some players will try to cheat the system by sandbagging and playing "accidental" safeties. Maybe you mixed something up, but you can play unlimited safeties.

"One of my main issues with any pool league is this issue of counting balls. I absolutely hate it when a person/team wins a match on ball count and not on the number of games won. 8-ball is like a chess game. It's about who legally pockets the 8 ball, like chess is about who takes down the king. It doesn't matter how many pieces you or your opponent have left on the board when you take down his king. That's why I get frustrated when I overhear a game going on where a guy runs down 7 balls and misses the 8 and all his friends pat him on the back to complement him on his "great run". It doesn't matter because any decent 8-ball player will take full advantage of this situation and likely run the table or use any or their up to 7 balls to hide him from his 8 ball and probably get ball-in-hand. APA is not the only league that is guilty of this, so I'm not singling them out."

I have never heard of any 8 Ball league where games are won or lost by ball count. I know in TAP you must count the balls left on the table at the end of the game, but this is for handicapping purposes only. It has no effect on who wins or loses the game or match.

APA 9 Ball does go by ball count, but I don't consider APA 9 Ball to be 9 Ball. It's a different game altogether. More of a 9 Ball/Straight Pool hybrid. Judged on it's own, it's a fun game with some different playing strategies than 9 Ball. Honestly, APA 9 Ball is a much better game for judging talent than regular 9 Ball. You'd have to double the number of games in a set to have the same amount of variance in matches (i.e., you'd have to play double the games to have the matches won by the better player with the same frequency). Regular 9 Ball really is the ultimate slop game, and the easiest game for bad players to defeat better players IMO.