Questions for those who believe in Jesus as a god?

Thank you for asking, and being courteous! I was brought up in a denomination that agreed with Islam (on Jesus being a creature, and hence should never be worshipped.) I've since discovered that most of the Islamic arguments against Jesus being worshipped as the same God as the Creator are the same as that denomination I used to be in! So I understand where you are coming from

However, the answer by SALVAGE is so good (especially if you email for the whole Word document giving the other points) I will not duplicate the reasons here. I do encourage you to get that document and study it, because you will be astonished at how many reasons in the Bible there are for the Christian Trinity doctrine.

I just want to add one important point that will affect your ability to understand.

If you have been taking on board this pseudo-Christian denomination's presentation of the Trinity, and its arguments against it, you will have no idea what the Trinity doctrine teaches. You will be labouring under great misunderstandings. First, the Trinity is clear that there can only be one God. There cannot be three gods! And only the one, true God is to be worshipped, for He is our Creator.

Second, the one Being of God subsists in the three persons of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, none of whom were ever created. The crux (for Muslims) is that Jesus was never created by God, or by anybody else. Jesus is the eternal Word of God who was with God in the beginning, who is God, and who created everything (John 1:1-14). The Word added human nature to his divine nature in order to become human - to become the baby born to the virgin Mary. But God did not create the Word / Jesus! The Holy Spirit performed the mircle of causing the virgin to conceive the Word of God, who was able to take human nature from Mary.

Because Muslims refuse to accept what the Bible says about Jesus, they can never grasp that Jesus was much, much more than just another prophet - just another good man! He is God incarnate. If you would read John's gospel account, that would become clear, and most of your questions would be answered.

All you are saying is that the natural reason that determines the existence of one God just takes it for granted that God is only one person. There is no way reason could ever determine that one God is Trinity nor that Jesus is God. It all starts with the actions of Jesus in scripture. As the Son of God, Jesus performed miracles (& forgiving sins) that can only be performed by God. So did God work through only the human Jesus or was Jesus also Divine Himself? This became a huge controversy that required a higher authority to settle. This infallible authority came from Matthew 16:18-19 & 18:18 which was used to declare that Jesus is God which was then explained by the Trinity doctrine as also infallible. So all your arguments above were considered and then rejected in favor of the preponderance of the evidence of the true Divinity of Jesus. This cannot be changed now since there is no appeal.

Your remark..." 1- They believe that Jesus, the holly spirit, and god are one. logically and linguistically that doesn't make since.

Of course it does not...because Jesus is completely separate from his father, Jehovah...and many scriptures say this.

(John 5:22) For the Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the Son,

(Matthew 24:36) “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

Jesus is the son and he does not know.

(Matthew 28:18) And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

Someone above Jesus must have done this...and it can only have been his father...who created Jesus...

(Proverbs 8:22-31) “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.

And WHO resurrected Jesus from his death?

The " trinitarians" have mistaken the qualities Jesus has with actually BEING God [ Jehovah]

He has been GIVEN these.

1. God is a Spirit and God happens to be holy. So when I say the "holy Spirit" I'm just referring to God. Jesus is when God incarnated in human form.

2. Jesus who was God in human form needed to pray because He was in human form. All humans need to pray. So Jesus had a two natures. He was 100% human and 100% God. His human nature not only needed to pray but eat and sleep etc.

3. Jesus became the Son of God through His human nature. Because God fathered His humanity in the womb of the virgin Mary.

4. Jesus is the only God every time God says to worship Him it is Jesus speaking. However, there are places wherein Jesus the Son of Man makes it clear who He is. He said "I and my Father(God) are one." then the Jews took stones to stone him for blasphemy. and in another place Phillip asked Him to show them the Father(God). Jesus replied "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" (John 14:8-10)

5. No, Jesus had both a mother(Mary) and a Father(God). But, that is just His human nature alone. His eternal Spirit was not created by anyone. See, His eternal Spirit IS God.

6. There are many different English versions of the Bible. The original Bibles were written in Hebrew, and probably Greek or some other language. You can check for yourself, there are actually more than one versions of the English Koran as well.

7. I don't care about a couple of pieces of wood that they used to torture someone to death. But, it is what the cross symbolizes. It symbolizes the work that Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross.

8. I've heard of many many Muslims who have converted to Christianity. There are people everywhere hungry and thirsty for God.

9. they're wrong.

10. You mean the trinity doctrine? I don't believe in that. I believe God is one. But, has manifest Himself to His creation in different ways. God is a Father, God is a Spirit, God became the Son of God through Jesus Christ.

11. Jesus made it quite clear that He laid down His own life. (John 10:17) No one could take His life if He did not allow it. In a similar way the scriptures make it clear that even though He died, death had no power to KEEP Him dead. He in effect conquered death for our sakes. He didn't need to conquer death for His own sake.

12. We have hope in this life. We have no promise of hope in the next life.

13. God alone is the judge, no one else can judge.

14. Because it seemed good in His sight. (see Luke 10:21)

15. He still has a purpose for the devil to fulfill. the devil is under Jesus' control. The devil's fate is sealed, I've read the back of the book. We could ask the same question of the Muslim God ...

https://ontheword.wordpress.com/on-salvation/

At His Trial One of the accusations against Jesus was that He claimed to be the son of God

(John 19:7, Matthew 26:63-65). If Jesus did not regard Himself to be as God, this was a critical opportunity for Him to correct a mistaken impression. Yet He did not, in Fact, it was at His trial before Caiaphas that He affirmed His own deity under oath. Hence, we have powerful evidence from The Bible of the deity of Christ. www.vop.com = bible lessons, www.bibleuniverse.com = bible.

The Divinity of Christ

Matt.1:23 Immanuel 'God with us', Christ claimed The Angels of God as His Angels Matt. 14:31, John 1:1 Word [capital W proper name] [verse 14] Jesus made flesh. John 17:5,24 Jesus existed with The Father before the foundation of this world [see also Hebrews 13:8], John 8:58 Jesus is The I AM of Exodus 3, Moses and the burning bush, Luke 5:20-24 Jesus forgave sins, A act "only" God can do, John 20:28 Thomas testified Jesus Christ as God. Hebrews 1:5-9 The Father Himself address Jesus as God, Isaiah 9:6 this is a Prophecy about The Messiah [Christ] but the 'SAME' names that apply here to The Father apply to Christ as well, Mic.5:2 Christ's going forth has been from everlasting, 1 Timothy 6:15-16 Jesus has Immortality, Rev.1:18 Jesus is the first and the last and the [Only] one with the keys to the [your] grave, Phil. 2:5-12 Jesus voluntarily gave up His divine privilege to become our [your] Saviour. The prophecies of The Messiah include these: Mic. 5:2 Birthplace of Christ Luke 2:1-7 fulfilled in Christ. Isa.7:14 virgin birth Matt.1:23 fulfilled in Christ, Gen.49:8-10 Jesus' lineage through Judah Luke 1:30-32 fulfilled in Christ, Num.24:17 A Star shall rise out of Judah Matt.2:1-2 Fulfilled in Christ, Way to much proof Christ is indeed God, Not only became man [see Isa. 53] but when He returned to Heaven He kept that same body forever because it is by as it says in

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. The person and Power that destroyed sin will keep it from Ever coming back. i hope this helps questions just ask.

Very confusing to say the least and I can see why people turn their backs on God for not understanding it in the first place. Most religions have a person up front of church telling them what the Bible says. This is mistake #1. They don't encourage their members to read the Bible for themselves so they know what it says. Jesus is not God. No 3 in one God. The Bible says that God(Jehovah) has always been and will always be. Jesus on the other hand had a beginning as the Bible states he is the ''first born of all creation". So Jesus can't be God also. Jehovah wants mankind to know and understand Him and what He wants for us. To have it be confusing to His Creation wouldn't be so good. If you want to know what the Bible really teaches you can go to www.watchtower.org and see for yourself. God wants us to know Him as John 17:3 says.

Sorry you have far too many questions here and I'll tell you what I tell people on the Maths forum, you're entitled to ask as many questions as you like for 5 points but we're only obliged to answer one of them. If you really want answers and not just want to have a rant, please post fifteen separate questions. I haven't read beyond point 1.

The doctrine of the Holy Trinity makes perfect sense, logically and linguistically. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all one. There are two analogies you can look at but earthly analogies are only to help us wrap our heads around contexts and beware of trying to extend the analogies too far.

Egg analogy:

An egg has three parts, Shell, White and Yolk, all three parts make up the one whole egg.

H2O analogy.

Water can take the form of Ice (solid), water (liquid), and Steam (gas) but all three are H2O.

Both analogies are useful but neither tell us the whole story and nor should it. The creator of heaven and earth doesn't necessarily need to conform to the comprehension of the creation.

Imagine trying to describe a three dimensional box to a two dimensional being. You can project the three dimensional box onto the two dimensional plane, it will give the two dimensional boxes a concept of the cuboid box but all they'd see is a square, you can verbally describe the box but they'll have to take the contradictory claims about angles and faces at face value as they'd never be able to construct a mental image of the cube. Different imperfect analogs are the best we can do to communicate truths that are beyond our comprehension and quite frankly unnecessary for our salvation. Rather than quibbling about the nature of the Godhead we should focus on what God has to say and obey his word.

If you really want to know more about trinity you can read more here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

If you think you're going to ask cleaver questions that stump Christian apologists, the best minds that Christianity and Islam have to offer have debated this for over 1400 years and haven't gotten anywhere, so it's a tad ambitious to think you might be able to settle the debate yourself but I salute your efforts.

1 - Agreed that this does not make sense. I think the failure is in your comprehension of English.

2 - Many Christians do "skip" Jesus and pray directly to the Father in Jesus' name.

3 - God only has one *begotten* son - millions or billions of adoptive sons, according to the Bible. He has only one begotten son because one is all that he needed or desired. We know that Jesus is the son because the Bible teaches that Jesus is the son.

4 - That is not recorded in the Bible. However, Jesus did personally bless everyone who believes that he is God and Lord:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2...

5 - That is NOT why Christians believe that Jesus is God. Quite the contrary, Christians believe that Mary is the mother of Jesus.

6 - Here is the answer to that question, plus additional information that will help you to understand why the question seems strange to Christians:

http://www.bible-reviews.com/topics_answers.html#F...

http://www.bible-reviews.com/blog/2010/08/06/why-i...

7 - We do not "love the cross itself", but the crucifixion of Jesus is the most important event in Christianity because we have received salvation and forgiveness of our sins because of that event.

8 - For the very same reason that there are a lot of Muslims who have converted to Christianity, some of them imams. Something in the alternate religion appeals to the individual converts on a personal level, and that something varies *greatly* from individual to individual.

9 - Your personal experience is not very persuasive.

10 - Yes.

11 - The Bible teaches us that he could, but that he chose not to do so because that was the will of the Father.

12 - Uncertain. Some believe that all who fail to accept Jesus during their mortal lives are doomed to eternal punishment. Others believe that some or all people will have a second chance to accept Jesus after death. The Bible explicitly addresses what you call "unfair" (it is no such thing):

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat%20...

13 - See 12.

14 - He did not. It is so easy to believe in that it is currently the most popular religion on the planet.

15 - Killing the Devil would not save us from our own sinfulness.

- Jim, http://www.bible-reviews.com/

just going to answer a few of your questions. God can do anything. That means He can be the Trinity. He IS our Creator. He IS our Messiah/Savior. He IS our guide in the Church on earth. Those are all in the Trinity. He IS Father, Son and Spirit. He came to earth on 3 separate occasions. Like dividing Himself 3 times. Father with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Also with many talks and walks with Moses. Then as a human as Jesus. Then as the Spirit to guide the Church that Jesus started with the 12 Apostles.

Many Muslims don't convert to Christianity because in Islam there is a promise of death if they leave it. Christianity doesn't kill people that leave it to follow another faith.

People, like in a village in Africa, that never have heard of God or Jesus are judged on their good deeds toward others. When they die, they will meet Jesus to be judged and He will tell them who He is and judge them fairly.

14- Jesus was a Jewish man. That was His religion. Christianity is the religion of His followers. I find it VERY easy to be a Christian. Jesus performed miracles in front of many people while on earth. Muhammad didn't. Jesus died and rose from the dead. Muhammad didn't. Jesus ascended to Heaven infront of the people. Muhammad didn't.

15- The devil, Satan, is the first angel God created. His favorite at that time. Angels have free will. God never completely destroys His creations. He lets them live forever, either in Heaven or hell. Lucifer/Satan decided to rebel and God created hell for him to live in. Later, after He created mankind, hell became a place for the evil men as well. Jesus can't kill Satan. He can fight him and lock him in hell but can't destroy him completely because God doesn't do that.

I answered your question and Yahoo said my answer was too long.

1. In Christ there is a divine and a human nature and these two natures in one person, so that they are joined together like no other thing or entity, and yet so that the humanity is not divinity nor the divinity humanity. This distinction no way hinders but confirms the union. Christ is True God and True man. there is no other like Him. Only God is sinless and Christ is sinless and only Christ could take away the sins of the world.

Sorry, my other answers were great but Yahoo would not allow them.