Atheists, maybe this Christian makes sense in proving God?

Correct me if I've misunderstood. Out of chaos came order. Out of virtually nothing (certainly nothing that could be seen with human eyes) that immensely condensed atomic particle suddenly expanded, at which point time was created and matter hurled out into newly created space? And the first result of that was light (I got that from a BBC documentary on cosmology). Then gravity kicked in and matter began to collect into lumps and then start orbiting. Stars formed, exploded, became second generation stars, and their destruction caused the building block elements of life to be cast throughout the new universe. All of those building block elements converged on a tiny planet somewhere in this vast universe, which was just the right distance from its sun so that life in myriad abundance could flourish.

Now, that sounds like chaos gave rise to life in a structured way. But as that website points out, chaos never builds up! So, it only appeared to be chaos, when, in fact, it was all designed and ordered by the Creator with this universe as the goal. As billions of years have elapsed, we see hints of changes that will result in (for example) the moon being drawn closer to earth then it will disintegrate eventually, and then the earth will be pulled more towards the sun, which will expand before spectacularly exploding (dying). This is a kind of entropy, yes, but perhaps it's also designed disintegration? After all, the Bible says there will come a time when the earth will be exposed and destroyed by fire, revealing all its elements within, and then God will create a new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness will dwell.

Sounds to me as if everything about this universe is designed by God; from its creation to an eventual destruction and a re-creation. And I remember how scientists used to uphold the "Steady State" theory of the universe, which now is clearly wrong. I think that scientists will yet come to the point where they see the sense of the Genesis creation account (which need not demand 24-hour-earth days - billions of years could be implied). And as the Bible starts with epochs way, way back in the past, so it points to the future, way, way forward in the future, with God at the helm all of the way. Fascinating!

This is still an argument from ignorance e.g. I don't know how this could happen without a God and thus God did it. Theists should stop trying to discredit Atheism and instead prove the existence of their God. There is still a huge amount that we do not fully understand about our universe (string theory still confuses the s#it out of me) but we are learning more each day e.g. the effect of dark-matter on the acceleration of the expansion of the universe.

I think entropy needs to be looked at in a larger scale when dealing with universes and the expected outcome is a cold energy death of the universe in the long-term.

"These things simply cannot be. Therefore, there is a God who created the universe in a form even more organized than today and with even more structure than today. The universe has been winding down ever since. God is not limited by the natural laws — He created them. Therefore, He can add energy to the universe whenever He chooses and we know that He did this very thing at least once. This was on the day of creation." - Special pleading.

A theist pretending to be an atheist, or did you copy paste that chunk of mumbo then added your own conclusions?

The most glaring problem is: Current science doesn't know, therefore god.

The second is that you're deliberately or otherwise misinterpreting the science. Disorder increases with time naturally (stable substances decay). However, you've included the Big Bang in all this, as well as the opening seconds where matter formed. It could be said that emptiness is the ultimate order, and even if the 'egg' (I have no idea where you got that idea from, but lets go with it), is a dense matter ball, it's very unlikely it would have been able to 'randomise' much (the whole universe is in it and it wasn't shedding bits as it went along, it blew up instead).

Anyway, back to point. Using your own analogy again, the day the big bang happened is like your 'God did it once' quote. Energy and matter began, elements formed, the universe started. What we perceive as order is really not. Humans artificially attempt to create order, but remember that all matter is constantly breaking down anyway, so it doesn't matter that we turned elements into concrete into buildings, at a base level, entropy occurs.

This brings it back to the very top of this argument, where the quoted person talks about "everywhere we look". That's not the point. It's probably simpler (not the whole of the answer, but easiest to understand) to look at it this way: left alone, buildings crumble and turn to dust, whereas you never see buildings rising out of sand on its own. Order must be created, entropy does not. The premise of this argument is wrong, as was its conclusion.

"The law of entropy states that as time passes the amount of disorder in a closed system increases."

No it doesn't.

"The universe had a beginning, this is clear."

No it isn't. It's clear the universe was once really small and then expanded.

"But according to the scientific description concerning the nature of the universe at the moment of creation, entropy was already very high. The "primal egg" was a random collection of particles packed very densely with no possibility of the complex structure that we observe today."

No it wasn't. It was amazingly simple and high energy. It had to cool down for particles to form. It had to cool down for gravity to separate from everything else.

"There were no molecules or chemical reactions and therefore no possibility for the myriad of structures and organized relationships between particles that exist today. There were certainly no brains or societies of living beings as we have today. In short, entropy has decreased since the beginning of the universe."

But it hasn't. Entropy is the reduction of usable energy for work in a system. It says nothing of complexity or organisation. The most organised state is total entropy anyhow. Everything perfectly balanced. Complexity is absolutely the opposite to order.

"But since when do explosions result in a condition which is more organized and more structured than before? And how could a random collection of particles form into stars and planets and beings if entropy must increase? "

It wasn't an explosion. It wasn't an extreme and sudden release of energy into existing space. There was no more energy added or even moved. It was the expansion of a pre existing singularity that "created" space. Well "stretched out "the singularity. Stars are a result of entropy increasing. The energy from inside hydrogen atoms is being distributed from where it's more concentrated, in stars, to where it's less concentrated, everywhere outside a star. They are converting energy. Not creating it.

"These things simply cannot be. Therefore, there is a God who created the universe in a form even more organized than today and with even more structure than today."

They can if you get them right. And why must a god be the only possible explanation? And even if it was, why yours?

"The universe has been winding down ever since. God is not limited by the natural laws — He created them. Therefore, He can add energy to the universe whenever He chooses and we know that He did this very thing at least once. This was on the day of creation.""

The net energy of the universe is zero. You get down to it there's no energy in the universe. It's all just an imbalance in nothingness.

"Ordered living beings age because their energy and matter diffuse out of them with time."

Living beings age because their genetic material get damaged. Some life could go on as long as there's food for it.

Still reading........

The part where you said "entropy has decreased since the beginning of the universe." is not true. In the past, scientists believed that the universe would once again grow smaller and everything would get back to its original state, i.e. to the "primal egg", but new evidence shows that the speed of the expansion of the universe is not decreasing, rather it is increasing, which means that at some point all particles will be seperated from each other and will spread disorderly in a large space. That is to say, the same matter that existed in the beginning will spread in a far larger space, thus planets and galaxies will not exist anymore. So entropy is increasing.

The second law of thermodynamics is well supported and undoubtedly right. Systems with no energy source become increasingly disordered. No atheists claim that life and the natural balance of our planet will continue when we now longer have a sun. At the moment we do have one though and this is a very efficient source of energy.

"These things simply cannot be. Therefore, there is a God who created the universe in a form even more organized than today and with even more structure than today."

HAHAHHAHHAH

okay, even if this WAS somehow true, do you have evidence that your CHRISTIAN god exists? no. in fact, I think Christianity is mainly a selfish religion that if there WAS a higher power, it would be nothing like Christianity says it is.

"And how could a random collection of particles form into stars and planets"

wait what about gravity?

Judging by your low points, I'd say you may be the very christian who wrote the argument. I doubt your an atheist, otherwise, you probably wouldn't even be open to considering God as a possibility. Atheists are demented and have closed off their minds.

By the way, I am a Christian, and if you are secretly a Christian, then stay on the right path.

Not sure what he's going on about regarding the "atheistic position". My atheistic position is simply that I'm not a theist.

What are you yalking about,that is not a question it is a lecture and i have no idea why i should now believe in some God.Do you have the one and only Gods name handy?