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Seeking intelligent/honest answers to these challenges and questions regarding atheism?
I'll be upfront: I'm seeking to point you towards the Christian world view, as I believe in Jesus' divinity and necessity to forgive our sins. I hope you will at least consider the points I raise with an open mind and let logic prevail over the desire to win an argument. I'll seek to do the same with your responses and look forward to reading them. Feel free to message me or ask for follow up.
1. If materialism, the idea that nothing exists that is not tangible matter and energy, is true, then how do you explain immaterial concepts such as numbers and the laws of logic? How do you explain things like consciousness and thoughts? What about the concept of beauty or the enjoyment of music?
2. How do you justify (macro)evolution? Christians, if they are being consistent, do not believe in the theory of macroevolution, which we define as one species evolving into another and also the reasoning that says all life evolved from a single cell at one point. We do believe in Microevolution, which are the easily observable adaptations and changes within species. There is clear evidence for micro., but macro has several problems. Out of all the fossil records we have to date (and there are a lot of them), no transitional forms between species have been found. Charles Darwin himself assumed they would be found upon further searching, but said if they were not that his theory was flawed. In addition to this problem, we observe that natural selection only removes DNA information, not add to it, something necessary for the theory of macroevolution. Is it not possible (if we consider the possibility of God creating species) that we are making a reach on this theory?
3. What started the big bang? If everything that begins to exist has a cause, we can go all the way back to the big bang, but where did the matter come from in the first place and what set it in motion? Remember that most scientists agree on the big bang theory, part of which states that it was also the beginning of time itself. Also, lest you argue against God by asking who created Him, remember that the very definition of God is that he is eternal; he never began to exist but always was (yes, that is hard for us to understand in the universe he's created).
4. How do you explain morality? If atheism/materialism is true, then there is no ultimate good and evil. There can be no right or wrong. Atheism claims (and indeed it must) that morals are a result of evolution and culture, therefore there is no universal right or wrong, only personal and cultural opinion; what is wrong for you need not be wrong for me. This means if murder is not against the law in a country, it is justifiable if the majority sees it as okay. Our only logical arguments against rape are personal/community opinion. We have no right to tell Hitler he is wrong other than our mere opinions against his opinions on how to live out our irrelevant lives. Honestly, we don't even have ANY ultimate, inherent rights.
We may argue that it is practical not to do these things, but what if someone else thinks it is (survival of the fittest anyone?)? Some may call on the favored motto "do unto others as you would have done to you," but why should we follow this golden rule if it's merely an opinion, albeit a widely accepted one? Ultimately, we don't have to; we can and even should do what we can if we can get away with it and it will result in our happiness. Morality at it's core must be relative to the individual and culture, if we are to be consistent with the atheistic world view.
If I did not make it clear enough, here is the argument repackaged: If we are to believe there is such a thing as evil (and I sincerely think there is), there must also be such a thing as good. If these two things exist, there must be a universal and objective moral law used to distinguish good and evil. We can only have a universal moral law if there was a universal law giver: God. If there is no God, there is no universal law, no such thing as good and bad beyond personal and cultural opinions. So no real evil or no real good....Do you believe (in being consistent with your world view) there is no objective, inherent wrong in killing an innocent person, raping children, stealing, etc.?
5. Finally, honestly, and personally, are you open to the possibility of God? Most in the scientific community today are not. This fact does not disprove his validity, but rather sheds light on why we receive most scientific findings from a non-theistic point of view. We all agree it is impossible to disprove God, so isn't it then intellectually dishonest to never consider the possibility? If you consider the possibility, perhaps you will see information in a different light. The beauty in the sky is now attributed to God rather than the power of evolution. Nothing, even the direction of your life, is random any more. C.S. Lewis put it well: "Christianity, if false, is o
Ack! My C.S. Lewis quote didn't fully post... it continues "of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance."
These are all philosophical questions for the most part. I do not claim they are the reasons I believe in God, but they serve to affirm and strengthen my belief.
1. Some of these questions are much less resolved than some of you assume they are in their respective areas of study. Consciousness, for example, is still not understood by psychologists.
2. Yes, only the theists make the distinction between forms of evolution, but does the term used to explain the concept make any difference? I will look into the thousands of supposed forms, I'm interested in seeing the different interpretations of so much data.
3. The big bang is also big problem. It did have a beginning as most scientists will tell you. The quantum physics comment was interesting, I will look into it further, though I would be surprised if it is much more than a stab at trying to explain
9 Answers
- Anonymous9 years agoFavorite Answer
You've asked reasonable questions, and have been honest about your desire to convert people. I'll be equally honest and tell you that I'm hoping to get you to reconsider some of these matters.
Here are my answers.
1. If that's your definition of materialism, them I'm a rationalist, not a materialist. I believe there is ultimately a rational explanation for everything in the universe. Whether we humans with our limited brains can understand all the explanations is a different matter.
2. Natural selection is only one part of evolution. New information is created both by recombination of DNA strands and by random mutations (yes, random.) Natural selection does not create this new information, but it is a critical factor in amplifying the new information that is beneficial to the organism's reproduction with in the population. If you think new information cannot be created, google 'gain-of-function mutations.' for a long list.
By the way, Darwin made a brilliant discovery, but his ideas are in no way canonical.
3. This is a 'god of the gaps' argument, that is - science can't answer so there must be a G-d. This same argument could have been used a century ago to explain how the sun could keep burning. Incidentally, cosmology theories are very much in flux. With time they should become more stable.
4. I'm sorry to tell you that morality is indeed relative to the culture (and sometimes even the individual), and the prevailing morality is usually that of the strongest person. You (and I) may not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong. My own idea is that moral stances are those which increase human happiness; unfortunately, people in power rarely seem to agree.
Do we have the right to fight against what we see as atrocities? Absolutely, but at the same time, we should retain the humility to recognize we're doing what we believe is right, not what G-d wants.
5. I'm a Jewish panentheist, not an atheist, but the atheists I know are generally much more willing to consider the idea that there might be G-d than Christian fundamentalists are willing to consider that their beliefs are wrong..
If you have followup questions, feel free to email me.
Zvi the Fiddler
- Allie QLv 79 years ago
That was almost too much to read. And you seem to lack an understanding of what an atheist actually is.
We don't believe in god/s. That is all. Everything else - not relevant.
1. Materialism is not atheism. Can I explain why I find the color green appealing? No. But that has nothing to do with my stance on the existence of god/s, and to say, "I don't understand this, so it must be god/magic/spiritual," is a cop out. That isn't "understanding", it's giving up on the question and tossing everything you don't comprehend into a soup of "belief". I am not philosophical or scientific. I do know that the brain is amazing. Numbers - that is just counting. I have one stone. I have two stones. I have three stones. Basic understanding of quantity developed into more complicated mathematics. Not that hard to figure out.
2. We have evidence of evolution. There is no such thing as "micro" and "macro" evolution. It is all evolution. The distinction between larger and smaller changes is something religious institutions made up, and, from what I've seen, bears a HUGE amount of misinformation on what evolution actually is.
3. I don't know, and I don't care. It has nothing to do with my atheism. If your "god" can be eternal, then what is to say the materials that created the universe, the first push of the Big Bang, aren't eternal, always existing in some form or another? We have more evidence for the Big Bang than any gods.
4. There is no universal moral law. Morality is fluid. Good and evil are human concepts, words to label a behavior. Different cultures have different morals. Every individual person has different morals. My neighbor thinks abortion is "evil". I don't. My neighbor thinks gay marriage is "evil" and destructive. As a married bisexual woman with two children, naturally, I disagree with her. In America, Christmas was once thought to be wrong, against the Bible - but now we have the War on Christmas as the religious rail against its secularization.
We have laws against killing, and stealing, and harming others, because we, as a species, are social creatures. The ability to bond and protect is what kept us thriving. Killing a member of your tribe/herd would hurt the whole. Hurting, stealing... these things would created division and weaken the group. Even herd animals in the wild have a concept of no killing, protecting the family, and driving away or killing threats, even if they come from within the group.
It's all thanks to evolution and growth. No gods are necessary.
5. I was a Christian for over 20 years. If, in all of my searching between leaving Christianity and becoming an atheist, I had ever found on ounce of evidence for any god, I would be open to the possibility. As that has not happened (not even when I was a believer), I am inclined to disbelieve.
And again, you show you don't understand even what you are arguing. The sky - has NOTHING to do with evolution. Perhaps you should do more research before trying to school people on this subject?
- ?Lv 45 years ago
First off, atheism can't answer you...That's a subject, no longer a individual. Being an atheist is style of the default in regard to beliefs. A character has to receive/sought religion in an effort to have it. If not, then atheism is the default. Now not a lot a "option" thing, more only a label and approach of being. I did not selected this, I was once born and raised it, and therefore for me it's no more of a choice then the hair colour I was born with. Also...To say that we "select to assert there's no Christ," on account that when is your religion the default faith of the arena? I don't say there's no Christ, I honestly do not care if there ever used to be or was once no longer...I say I don't think in any gods.
- Lizard QueenLv 49 years ago
so you lied...
i aint reading this, in fact, i think ill go burn a bible tonight, just because of you buddy
Edit: ok i couldnt help myself, to your first point; all thought and feelings are a result of chemical reactions occurring in the brain and the rest of your body
2nd- well of course its possible, but i dont see any compelling reason to think evolution doesnt work. after a couple million years and countless genetic mutations, some species survived and other didnt, that makes perfect sense to me
3rd-if god can be eternal (which i see as a total cop-out) why can't the universe be? we havent seen any evidence to the contrary. is god not subject to the laws you made up for science?
4th- there is no objective morality. we have set up laws for ourself that enable us to exist in a decent society. in our most primal years the thought process was "if i kill someone, their family will kill me" and that worked. so entire legal system came about and outlaws killing. after many years people began contemplating morality and we came up with the golden rule. doesnt it just make sense that not killing or raping is a good thing?
5th- thats a lie. most scientists are open to the idea of god, and so are most atheists, we just dont believe in a god(s). the universe is a beautiful terrifying mystery, whats wrong with that?
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- 9 years ago
Hello Coolguy. Atheists do not lack intelligence or morals. They lack wisdom and God's never changing morals. Atheists love and set their morals according to what they believe benefits themselves. God sets His unchanging love and morals according to what He knows benefits us and other people. He has been around since before man was created and has seen and experienced much from us. He is well knowledgeable.
All of the arguments you made have good points but can be contradicted by the Atheist. The Bible is the source by which we receive our information from God. Remember faith comes by hearing the word of God. Not by a human being's argument. Faith is the substance of what is hoped for but not yet seen.
The Bible was written around 1600 years ago by 34 Spirit Filled men whom God chose to script His words. The Bible is 66 different books that all agree with each other. Wisdom of God comes from learning His written Word and a relationship with His Word in the flesh Jesus, which comes from our faith which is influenced only by the Bible. Not the word of any human being. When one become wise, they ask to find God and God reveals Himself to them. But, not until then. Our job is to pray that the Atheist wants to know Jesus and His love for them. God bless.
- Anonymous6 years ago
You aren't seeking answers, you just want to preach your predetermined views. too bad your mouth is open and your mind is closed.
- Anonymous9 years ago
Jesus never existed, the whole story is a lie.
- Anonymous9 years ago
All your points have been addressed here many times before.
There is no God.
Thank you.