Christians, I have an argument; what say you?

Just to clarify a few things.

You said, "Why would He declare one the truth while leaving people who do not follow it (after they've heard of it, of course) to be condemned to burn in a fiery pit for all eternity?"

"A lot of people say, well how can a loving God send anyone to hell? First of all God doesn't send anyone to hell...But when somebody says to me, how can a loving God allow anyone to go to hell, I'll turn around and say, "Well how can a holy, just, righteous God allow sin into His presence?" -Josh McDowell

You also said, "He can't seem to get rid of Satan"

He will though. Revelation 20:10 states that satan himself will be "cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever".

In my view, be thankful that he HAS provided a way out, and that's though his Son. The point of salvation is not "believe this or burn" the point of salvation is that our sin has separated us from God, and Christ came to abolish that enmity between us. And those who turn from their sin, and put their trust in his sacrifice are saved. That's it. If there was more than one way of salvation, Jesus would not have to die on the cross. Salvation is available to anyone, even homosexuals. "Whosoever will, may come."

You said, "to suggest that God is not able to forgive all sins is also to suggest that He is not perfect."

God is also a JUST God. He can't just allow sin to slide. That sin demands justice the bible says, the soul that sins shall die. Christ satisfied that justice on the cross.

If the nature of the being is to create, then no desire is necessary.

As for the rest of your claims: They would suggest this supposed God is not a good or loving being, but they do not show that no such being exists.

Deism is no more reasonable than any other form of theism.

edit: First, we know of things in the universe that have no known cause, such as radioactive decay. Thus, it is not even empirically reasonable, much less logically reasonable to say "everything has a creator." And unless you have some infinite regress in your mind, you don't believe that claim, either, since you don't think your God was created.

Second, logic cannot dictate anything about the world. If it could, we would not need evidence to gain knowledge of the world, we could just reason our way into complete understanding.

I have really been noticing lately how particularly immature and absurd a lot of the arguments or insults that non-believers like to throw at we Christians (you seem to be trying to hold a certain kind of "respect" (yet sadly not towards our most loving and merciful God) so I do not like saying things this way, but I am indeed being honest. I will of course not end this answer without pointing to the fact that God is indeed love and mercy itself and that it is indeed His great love and mercy that are indeed having you be able to take the very breath you are taking right now-----I sincerely hope you realize this before it is too late---and remember, that no matter how young or healthy we may be, no one knows the hour of their death=====hopefully you will turn to this most loving and merciful God before it is too late+++indeed do not waste the precious time He has given you to at least try to sincerely get to know Him if only to humbly say every day or/and night something like, "God, if you do indeed exist, show me the truth".

I don't think you realize how very stupid this trying to use animals to try and justify homosexual acts really is. Goodness gracious, I had a caught my dog outside eating a big disgusting pile of feces (which is not all that uncommon in dogs (and most likely some other animals)----does that make it that it should also be something "natural" for us to do also. One of my cats tried to have sex with its own kittens---I have also recently read that this is not uncommon among cats (and probably among some other animals also)---does that mean that incest should be recognized as a "natural thing" for humans also. I can pretty much guess that you would answer, "No" to both questions. What homosexual people go through is far from an easy thing and should never be trivialized as a "choice" and in other ignorant ways, but to also go against natural law is also not right, and we are indeed not helping them by saying that it is "natural" and there is nothing wrong with practicing homosexual acts. When I lived in a serious state of sin, it was tempting to try to make myself believe that it wasn't wrong and I can peacefully keep going the way I was---but I knew that what I was doing was seriously sinful and those that tried to make me feel better by saying it was okay sure didn't help me much----in fact, the ones that I felt most comfortable with were the ones who knew that I was going through a very hard time with that difficult and sinful situation and that were there still loving me, yet not filling my ears with lies about the sinfulness of what was going on.

I can see your concerns, and I understand that at first glance this may seem worrisome.

As for you point about "desire," what is wrong with that? God had a desire to create. This is not an evil desire, it is healthy and beautiful.

About "Jealousy," I think this is a confusion of terms. God commands His People not to covet what is not theirs. (Exodus 20, Verse 17.) However, when He claims to be a Jealous God, he was saying that His People should not worship other gods. (Exodus 20, Verse 5) The command to not envy simply means that one should not desire the property of another. When God claims to be Jealous, he wasn't desiring what did not belong to him. He was showing what DID belong to him.

When it comes to other religions, you seem to have the wrong idea of how Christianity came to be. God did not simply "declare one the truth" randomly, he revealed Truth and ordained how it should be followed.

I know it sounds unjust to condemn the Buddhist monk, but God is still just. See, the Bible is clear that all have sinned, and none can earn their way to Heaven. Every person is born sinful, and deserving of Hell. However, instead of giving us what we deserve, God sent his Son Jesus to suffer in our place. This was an incredible act of mercy! Thus, the root of this issue isn't "Why are certain people condemned" rather "Why was God kind enough to save ANYone?"

"Can't seem rid to get rid of Satan." You make God sound like some kind of sadist, and this is simply untrue. God keeps Satan at bay (see the Book of Job) and Satan will be punished. His days are numbered.

As for your argument about homosexuality, I think that it isn't sufficient. After all, cannibalism, infanticide, and the consumption of feces are present in nature, but this doesnt mean that humanity should emulate these behaviors. Also, homosexuality is not a "mistake" made by God, but a sin committed by humans. Thus, that argument is logically flawed.

I hope this answers your questions!

Everybody knows that God is real. We can see there is a God by the very fact we are here. Where did all these Sun's, Planets, and animals come from if there is no God? Someone had to create them! They just could not have just popped into existence by their own will?

Someone HAD to create something out of nothing. Nothing cannot create something!

God gives you the free will to reject Him. But with rejection you will be punished for rejecting Him! After all He did create you and He has the right to punish you also!

I wouldn't take the Bible or it's interpretation too seriously. When Rome was burned, so were the libraries that held most of the writings of the times. After 300 years after the death of Christ, the government of Rome (The church) wrote the Bible. They left out things they didn't agree with, and added things to scripture. Many ancient scrolls have been discovered, and deciphered that disputes many things in the Bible, and many things that are missing. Many catholics, and protestants try to interpret the old testament, and most of the time they are wrong. Religion is a tricky thing. More humans have died in the name of religion than all wars put together. I have my faith, inner peace, and I keep it simple.

God's desire is to be worshiped. It's God so it's the only thing worthy of worship. God is God, man is *not* God. Once you understand that basic contrast, you understand why God has rights that he never gave to man. For example: God being a jealous God means that God doesn't want you to have idols or false gods. God has that right because he's the only one that's holy & therefore the only one worthy of worship. YOU, on the other hand have no right to be jealous because you, as a sinner don't actually deserve anything. And so covet is a form of idolatry. God IS the moral standard so it's not possible for us to have a higher one than God. Like if a parent tells his 13 year old that he's not allowed to drive the car, the kid will be thinking "he's a hypocrite because he drives the car, yet tells me not to." The parent's logic is perfect, but the kid is mentally-underdeveloped & can't see things objectively.

It's not illogical, it's perfectly logical. YOU are the one with the flawed logic. You must understand that logic is not your opinion. Logic is fixed, immutable & non-contradictory, so your limited human perspective has no bearing on it. That's what biblical theology is like: objective logic. You have to understand it as it is as opposed to how you filter it in your mind by your own standards.

Secondly, there's nowhere in the entire bible that says God created man with free will. Only God has free will. Man's will is inclined toward evil by God's standards. You're asking why God declared one singular truth, then you're complaining about logic? That IS logic. Truth is singular & falsehood comes in many forms. If my name is john, but you call me jake, he calls me joe & she calls me jim, is my name not still John just because they got it wrong? Truth is absolute & there's no changing it. All the world's religions from Islam to catholicism, atheism to eastern paganism can be traced back to one satanic babylonian pantheon of demons. They all branch from Luciferianism & it's not hard to research. Religion is satanic & it's all controlled by the same satanic Illuminati monolith. Religion appeals to man's sins & promises him godhood. Biblical truth is the opposite of worldly religion & it's an open contradiction to man's philosophies.

Who says God can't get rid of Satan? "For the powers that be are ordained BY God" means that Satan is God's puppet. The reason we capitalize the letter G when talking about Abraham's God is to emphasize the absolute authority & dominance over everything. Your problem is that you don't understand history or reality. Homosexuality has been destroying civilizations for millenia. It's now being used by communist conspirators as a marxist attack on western civilization because the family is the very foundation of it. Once you destroy family, all other balance collapses.

"My reasoning" is the problem. Stop reasoning your way around absolute logic & take it as it is. John calls Christ "the logos." Logos means "logic." Jesus said "If any man wishes to come after me, let him DENY himself." What's this telling us? That logic is objective, not based on your corrupt human opinion. We're all born into a deceptive world dominated by satanic tyrants who want to globalize. Now is not the time to put our brainwashed presuppositions above the revelation of God.

You have asked a great question. God is love. Hebrews 1:1-3 KJV tells us that God through His Son created the worlds. All that was created was created by His Son. There was a rebellion started up in heaven. Lucifer a created being Ezekiel 28:12-19, stood before God day and night making accusations Revelation 12 and Isaiah 14:12-17. He was able to get a third of the angels of heaven to side with him, against God in a war. All of creation was created with the power of choice, including us. Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven. He determined to cause our world to side with him in the rebellion against God. When He got Adam and Eve to not trust God enough to sin, then Satan claimed this world for himself. Jesus didn't need God to force Him into coming to this world. All of creation is His inheritance. 2Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. 1John 3:4 defines sin as the transgression of the law. God's law in Exodus 20:1-17 defines His character of love, mercy, and justice. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, He never changes. When Satan broke God's law of love, it has led to all of the corruption, suffering, and death that we all experience today. It will be an act of love when God says enough of Satan's rebellion. If God had stepped in to stop Satan in his tracks to early, all of the universe would not have been convinced of how horrible sin really is. Seeing Jesus the Son of God willing to come to our little young world, and watching the Creator of the universe willing to lay down His life for us, convinced them. We are the last ones that still don't trust God, and still think we're doing okay doing things our own way. Time is not up yet, and God will allow Satan to more fully reveal his character to us. Job got a taste of the hatred Satan has for each one of us in Job 1 and 2. Ezekiel 28:18,19 and Malachi 4:1-3 tell us that in that day Satan and his followers will be destroyed, and burned to ashes. Revelation 21 is a promise that someday God will make all things new. The results of that cleansing fire that burns Satan the root of all evil to ashes, will be everlasting. Sin and it's results will never rise up again. It won't be fear or distrust of God that will keep us from rebellion, but an intense love of God, and knowing that He is perfect and just. I do understand that many generations of sin have had effects, and that non of us reflect the image and likeness of God, as we were created to be at Creation in Genesis 1. We can see the effects of drug use in just one generation now. Psalm 87:6 tells me that God takes into consideration the circumstances of where we were even born. Amazing Facts with Doug Batchelor has some great online Bible studies that can help with an introduction to a loving God, that we can trust for an eternity.

There are sinful desires to be sure, but that only means that there must be virtuous desires as well. for instance, envy and jealousy are often confused, but if you examine them closely, you see envy is born of covetous and greed and jealousy is born of love.

That makes envy sinful and jealousy virtuous in the proper sense. If a woman hears her baby call another woman "mommy", should she not be jealous of her child's affection. And if she is not jealous, then where does her affection for the child lie?

As a Christian, I believe, that it is in our virtuous desires that we can see that we are truly made in the image of God, for I do not observe that qualification of altruism anywhere else in nature.

I see much in the behaviour of the animal kingdom that is within the sinful desires of man, but I see none of the virtuous desires of man among the beasts.

Hope that helps.

Deist? Well . . .. IF a God exists, and if he has anything to do with the human race, then he either willed or condoned the slaughter of those 26 kids . . . . therefore he/she/it is not worthy of being worshipped . . . .

Thus I say . . . . it doesn't really matter, does it?

Edit: uh huh . . . .

Don't know which "deist" philosophy you're addressing (I'm guessing you're simply making one up of course) but, if he did neither then whether or not he exists is totally irrelevant. . . .