Why does anyone support or listen to the hypocritical Catholic Church?

I read about this earlier this morning... made me sick to my stomach. These churches need to be taxed and made to show where their money is going. Investigate them.... and for crying out loud, if they are going to say "life begins at conception" then they should be forced to stick to that. According to them "gods laws are above mans laws" which is why they try to enforce that "no contraception" thing on their employees (doesn't matter to them if their employees are not Catholic... they demand their employees follow their religious doctrines).

Special rights for religions need to stop... NOW

First of all, a Catholic hospital is not "the Catholic Church" and individuals within that hospital can and do have their own opinions, often the same as Catholics in the pews. This doesn't mean they are right, but the fact that there are Catholics who go against Catholic teaching is nothing new.

However, in the article, it is the lawyers for the hospital who have made this claim. And looking at it from a purely legal standpoint they are right. The state, in which they are being sued, does not recognize the unborn as a person, therefore they cannot be sued for the death of a non-person.

The law protects the hospital and staff. There are many, many doctors and staff who work in Catholic hospitals who are not Catholic.

<<The Catholic church holds that a fetus is a person when they want to argue against abortion even to save the life of the mother, but then they CONVENIENTLY argue that the fetus is NOT a person when they want to avoid a lawsuit. It is called hypocrisy. The Catholic church stands on no principal other than the amassing of money and power.>>

You are confusing the Catholic Church with a Catholic hospital. They are not the same thing. The lawsuit was not filed with the Church, but with the state. The state holds that the baby was not a person. That is the fact. The Catholic Church does not agree with the state on this, but that is the law just the same.

This is a medical malpractice lawsuit not a lawsuit defining personhood. I agree that the hospital made mistakes, the babies could have been saved most likely and it is tragic that there was no attempt made. But don't confuse the actions of hosptial lawyers as speaking for the Catholic Church.

So there are a couple of things going on here.

1) The Hospital's argument seems to be that according to STATE laws, NOT Catholic doctrine, this lawsuit against the Doctor is not legal on the grounds that the STATE does not recognize the unborn as a legal 'person' It would therefore be unfair to selectively apply the law to go after large organizations, specifically religious ones. IF the State doesn't view the unborn as persons..then they can not charge the Hospital with wrongful death.

2) Catholic doctrine actually tries to avoid the term "person" whenever possible, because this is a subjective term use predominantly by abortion activists to create a nebulous distinction between a "human being" and "person" Sometimes Catholic doctrine WILL refer to a 'human person' but what is meant by the Catholic church when it says "human person" and what the law means by 'person' are 2 different things. When the Catholic church uses it, it means ALL humans. When the legal system uses it, they mean a selective sub-set, generally humans which have reached a certain level of development.

The fact that the argument surrounds this legal term of "person" is actually VERY smart of the Hospital because it actually DOES force the issue to be resolved and for society to finally define personhood...something that many people struggle to define.

I see this partially the Hospitals way of taking a bad situation and forwarding the pro-life cause. Because if they can get the court to say that the fetus WAS or IS a legal person... then this is a HUGE blow to the abortion rights movement.

I disagree with the articles assertion that the Pro-Life cause would be better suited if the Hospital stayed with the Catholic church's definition of Human person. -- I disagree. I think they'd lose an opportunity to force the COURT to agree with them that all humans are human persons and the distinction between the 2 is arbitrary and for convenience sake.

3) I don't think we have any real grounds to assume it is all motivated by money. I didn't see mentions of this in the article, nor even information about how much in damages are sought. Their motives COULD be to shield their Doctor from a wrongful death suit that they feel is unwarranted.

Therefore we have to be careful not to presume something that is not merited based on the facts.

4) Legally, there is a lot of inconsistency in how the Court applies the concept of a 'person'

If I don't want the child, it is a fetus which we can dispose of. IF, however, I want it, then suddenly it is a 'person'

In some states, if you kill a women who is pregnant, you can get charged with a double murder. Yet this same women, 1 day later, could walk into an abortion clinic and procure an abortion and the fetus is NOT a human person.

I see that IF the court sides with the prosecution -- this could be GREAT fodder for the pro-life movement to again show the inconsistency of the current laws.

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Lastly, Just because the Hospital is Catholic..doesn't mean it always acts consistent with Catholic teaching OR in close communication with the Catholic Church as a whole.

There HAVE been Catholic hospitals that have performed abortions and when found out about it.. they do get in a bit of trouble. HOWEVER, the Catholic church doesn't hold total control over them and can't shut them down. At WORSE, all the Catholic church can do is say "you're no longer considered a Catholic hospital by US" -- and that's about it. The Hospital still operates and is still called the same thing. People still think of it as Catholic, even if the church has removed some 'official' approval.

So I think perhaps you are a bit naive about the nature of the connection between Catholic Hospitals and Schools and the Catholic church itself.

One Catholic hospital does not equal the entire Catholic Church or speak on its behalf. And no organization calls all the shots right every single time. You're expecting something of Catholicism that you yourself are incapable of doing, and that is 100% perfection.

And I'd much rather support a Church whose philanthropic organization, Catholic Charities, is the one of the largest and most active in the world than sit on the sidelines and kvetch. Maybe you're actively supporting your local food pantry, homeless shelters, clothing and household goods depot for disaster victims, and the other charitable groups in your area.

If so, good on ya. If not, you really don't have much to say about the Catholics who do.

I'm sorry that you've chosen to hate and malign the Catholic Church. I suspect that this diatribe of yours has more to do with the past than with the present. Whatever the reason for your attitude, it's going to hurt you a lot more than it is the Catholics of this Forum.

And obviously is.

I have no reason to defend the Catholic Church but I can easily.

You clearly have something against them. I am quite certain that you weren't indifferent before you saw that article. so as you already had negative feelings, you found what you were looking for.

Have you ever considered the possibility that to be liable in a civil suit for wrongful death, the death must be legally a person.

A fetus is alive and killing it would be murder (not legally as abortion is not murder in American law). That does not necessarily mean that the fetus is a "person".

Also consider the possibility that when you are sued using American law, then the only way to defend yourself is through American law. Does the Catholic church bring murder charges in the American legal system for abortions?

Yeah, that's pretty despicable. We should respect the line our medical experts draw for when the ideal time for an abortion is and when it's too late as the baby is now viable.

If people weren't so hard headed, the hospital would be responsible and women would not die all over the world because of early pregnancy emergencies and the hospital/rulers refuse to give an abortion.

I firmly believe the mass of humanity harbors real stupidity and cruelty in ego.

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Judd, she was 7 months pregnant. I'm pro-choice, but I think at that point the parents have full rights not to have their kid (now a human being) be negligently murdered. At 7 months, a child can survive outside the womb.

Has nothing to do with the Catholic Church. Just the continuation of a bigoted feeble-minded rant. Next?

I really dont know. They claim to represent Christ who said it was easier for a camel to go through hthe eye of needle than a rich man to get into heaven and yet they actually through a beggar out of st Peters recently becasue he was too scruffy in their gilded palace. They protect those who prey on the young and the weak who christ was the protector of and they tell people how to worpship God and actually, get this, in their confessions have the brass neck to turn around and offer forgiveness if you recount your sins to a priest. Its amazing really, but then again all organised religion is as flawed as the men who run it making it unfit for purpose really. Thats why i gave up on it and decided to talk to God one to one, like a child to its father without all the window dressing or dogma they use to control peoples faith.

They also claim that gay pedophilic rape is not a serious evil (unlike atheism).

Good question. Perhaps because they don't know any better? Or are deceived by Satan?