What constitutes a greek? there parents nationality or there place of birth?

Dear ΦΡΙΕΤ ΤΣΙΚΕΝ

You are making a lot of assumptions and over-generalizations.

This is what the constitution says

Article 4

3. Έλληνες πολίτες είναι όσοι έχουν τα προσόντα που ορίζει ο νόμος. Eπιτρέπεται να αφαιρεθεί η ελληνική ιθαγένεια μόνο σε περίπτωση που κάποιος απέκτησε εκούσια άλλη ιθαγένεια ή που ανέλαβε σε ξένη χώρα υπηρεσία αντίθετη προς τα εθνικά συμφέροντα, με τις προϋποθέσεις και τη διαδικασία που προβλέπει ειδικότερα ο νόμος.

(Greek CITIZENS are those that have the attributes that the law dictates...)

The law determines who is considered a Greek citizen. Here is the question of ethnicity and citizenship which people confuse some times. Citizenship is a legal term while ethnicity is a sociocultural one. An Afghan immigrant can become a Greek citizen but he is ethnically Afghan. So I guess in your question you are referring to ethnicity and not citizenship. If not then ignore my answer.

You need to understand something, since ancient times, Greeks have been present throughout the Mediterranean with their colonies and later with the Alexandrian conquests. The land that you are born on does not make you who you are. The environment and culture that you grow up in does. That is why Isocrates gave the definition of what is to be Greek. Those that have Greek Παιδεία (upbringing/education/culture/way of life), not by blood or land or whatever. Just think about the Janissaries during the Ottoman occupation. The vast majority of them were children of ethnic Greeks/Serbians/Bulgarians etc. Those children were taken and brainwashed/indoctrinated with results that we all are familiar with. Can you say that they were Greeks just because of their parents? I do not think so.

The majority of Greeks do not think that you have to live in Greece in order to be Greek. They are fully aware of the Greeks that are abroad and they look up to them because unfortunately abroad is the only place where a Greek can achieve his/her full potential for reasons that are easy to understand. You can also find however idiotic people who go all racist with this subject. Take Golden Dawn for example. Greek blood and DNA and superior race and all the "good" stuff.

As for your concluding comment let me show you what a wise man said once about the plight of the Greeks 10 years before the sacking of Constantinople.

(...among other things...)η κρατήσασα του γένους μαλακία και βλακεία.

It is the ever existing flaw of the Greeks.

Hope this helps.

UPDATE: Settle down my friend. As I said the constitution and the law determine CITIZENSHIP. Thus the constitution/law is not the thing that will show you if you are Greek (ethnically) or not. Since you qualify for Isocrates definition then you are more Greek than many self proclaimed "Greeks" who live in Greece. Since you understand that then do not bother yourself with idiots who tell you otherwise.

Jennifer Aniston Nationality

The Place of Birth.

i can tell you now im half greek but inside and out i feel fully i love greece with all my heart and would die for greece fighting turks fakeadonias albanians whoever when ever its my dream to help my people to overcome and unite over this crises we must stay strong AND WE WILL CAUSE WE ARE GREEK my father is from greece my mother from ireland but i love greece so much the history culture people food im only 15 i can speak a little greek and i am greek and have a greek name ilias and i will never forget who i am and would do anything to be acseppted among other greeks. HELLAS ARE THE BEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD WE BASICALLY MADE THE MODERN WORLD <3 GREECE <3

According to Herodotus a pure Greek must have:

- The same blood

- The same language

- The same religion

- The same customs

... with the rest of his ancestors.

According to Isocratis a pure Greek must have:

- A Greek education (only)

According to me it just needs pure love for Greece. I don't care if someone has only one Greek parent or even if he ever went to Greece. I only care for his heart. Of course I prefer all of the above as a plus. But are not necessary as much as his heart. See, if someone loves Greece then he lives there, so his kids are born Greeks and have the blood, the language etc... But if you hate Greece then doesn't matter neither the blood neither the language neither the place he lives...

From my personal experience, my Greek family/friends/acquaintances (permanently residing in Greece) always welcome me with open arms. I've never felt like a stranger around anyone.

I do, however, know that some Greeks have this bitterness towards Greeks born outside of Greece.. but I understand them and would probably even think the same if I were in their shoes. If "foreign" Greeks would have stayed in Greece, they could have contributed their skills locally and find ways with their compatriots to make THIS country a better place. It's frustrating to see a lot of skilled people being lost because of emigration (not just for Greece, but other countries as well). When I hear about Greeks wanting to leave Greece, I want to tell them "NO!!! Stay and help your patrida, you're making a big mistake to leave!!!" ..but who am I to talk? I was born and raised outside of Greece...

Anyway. To me, someone who is Greek is someone with the nationality (whatever the percentage, as long as it's not 0) AND the right attitude. Some Greeks from Greece try to take pride in American actors who are "half Greek," such as Jennifer Aniston.. but personally, I only see her as American. Similarly, Greeks who are pure-blooded can also be disconnected from Greece (as can be observed with many "pseudo-Greek" politicians, for example..). In other words, I think DNA is not enough; you need to prove your "Greekness" as well.

EDIT:

Airpole has a point: Not all Greeks born outside of Greece know what it means to be Greek. I've seen many who like to claim they know Greek, when they can't even hold a conversation. All they know are basic words/expressions like "έλα 'δώ ρε μαλάκα", "θα φας ξύλο", κ.α. and have very limited knowledge about things that relate to Greece, because they're too brainwashed with pop culture instead. Sure, their families ''drag'' them to follow Greek traditions and they physically look Greek, but that's just as far as it goes.

Now, of course, the above doesn't apply to you. You've learned the language and voluntarily studied about Greece. If someone ''rejects'' you for being born outside of Greece, that's something out of your control which makes no sense to be criticized for. Moving back is also very difficult to do when you've already built a life elsewhere. So, your situation is excusable, taking into account that you've educated yourself about Greece and contribute to keeping its culture alive outside of its borders.

Count yourself as a Greek ambassador!

A side note @Luke: Hellas (Ελλάς) = Greece, whereas Hellenes (Έλληνες) = Greeks

Having greek blood in your veins and a greek DNA makes you greek. That's why having 2 greek parents is important. If you are born in Greece it is assumed that , at least until recently before the immigration waves that attacked and tried to invade Greece, both your parents cary greek blood. Of course having greek blood by both your parents but being born in Germany let's say or the USA and never visiting Greece doesn't necessarily mean that you have a greek CULTURE. Being born in a foreign country, growing up there, living your life there and having no close ties to your parents' country doesn't really make you 100% Greek. Your blood may be greek but your culture is NOT. And you probably don't care much about Greece other than having a nice spot for your summer vacations.If however you maintain close ties and visit Greece and speak the language of your parents even if you grew up and live in England or Italia let's say, and you LOVE greece and you would gladly fight in a war to protect it and you feel greek inside and not British or Italiano, then yes you are Greek.

For me the bottom line is... WOULD YOU DIE FOR YOUR COUNTRY IN CASE OF WAR? If you prefer to run away back to your security in England, Germany, USA, Albania, Russia Italia or any other country you are writing from right now....then NO you definitely are NOT greek. And if Germany or Albania or Italy for example attacked Greece and you decided to fight on their side and not on your parents country's side (Greece) then NO you don't deserve to be called Greek.. Capisci mio amico?

Greeks are not strontzos in that aspect, even though they handle the issue a little more differently than people who live in another country and have been accustomed to mutli-nationalism and multicultural background.

The fact that Greece after 1990 was the destination of many illegal immigrants who thought that it was the Land of Promise, and for a while it was on account of the pre-Olympic works, led many to think that they did in fact found it. When all that was over, there was a serious deficit in working positions that made their lives and those of the natives very difficult.

But of course you do not mean the immigrants from other countries but rather the people born from Greek parenthood in other countries. I would have to agree with the other answerer that if you are prepared to fight for Greece and even more if it comes to that against the country you are living, then you can consider yourself Greek.

Not very long, a certain high ranging officer, Greek 2nd generation in USA Air Force was asked if it came to be at war against Greece, what side he would fight for, he replied that he would stand for the side of USA. Can you consider that man to be Greek. To me he is a disgrace and cannot be called Greek. Of course I can understand his attitude but that does not excuse him.

There are many people participating here and they try to pass as Greeks but although they have the best of intentions they do not actually act Greek in many ways to justify it.

Of those one that is justifying the idea is a common friend we two have and she is Greek 1000%.

The nostalgia and longing for the land of their forefathers does constitute a certain interest for the country but living with the problems of the country is a harder reality.

EDIT.

Dear ΦΡΙΕΤ, with my answer I do not try to bad-mouth you and I know that you have the best of feelings for Greeks and Greece. You have always got this little point wrongly about me and we know each other for a long time now. I also know your longing for Greece but you have to understand that many people of Greek origin do not feel like you do and you can't deny that. What really drives mad is that those people insist they are Greek and all they care is how to spend their holidays passing for something they are not and they do not do what they should do to promote Greece. Given, it is a country that has a lot of problems. Its politicians is the major one for a very long time now, but whatever faults this country may have is still a very beautiful one and a country that never stops surprising you. At least I, do not try to disillusion you or diminish you. But you have to realize that Greece is not what you have in your mind since your last visit. The illegal immigration has turned people against immigrants, especially those that their colour is not the same as ours. I also know that in Australia you are not considered as equal to WASPs and that is also another burden for those of immigrant parenthood. But life is a ***** and katheis ef' o etaxthei.

EDIT #2

It seems you are too preoccupied about our opinion of your Greek-ness which no one as far as I can see is denying. In fact you show excessively your Greek feelings and knowledge and the fact that you keep searching to improve your knowledge in commendable. So stop worrying. There are other things in life to worry about.

If a European was born in China would that make them Chinese?