Isn't the "hail Mary prayer" a repetitious prayer?

Yes, it is repetitious. My objection is that it appears to worship Mary. I know Catholics claim it venerates her, but to me that's nitpicky. That being said, many if not most other denominations have repetitive prayers, too. For one, consider the "Our Father".

Repetition is doing the same thing over again. There is no rule that if the action is done with x number of seconds or words between being repeated, it is not *really* repetition. You made that up yourself because you cannot bear to actually read scriptures, you have to rationalize and plant your ideas into scripture.

If you say the Our Father regularly, whether it be daily, weekly, or bicentenially, you pray in repetition, so you are a hypocrite.

Jesus was denouncing *VAIN* repetition, not denouncing all repetition as vain. Everyone can see that except you.

I see you never responded to my message, by the way.

Matthew 6:7 says not to heap up empty phrases, like the Gentiles do.

The Our Father is taught by Jesus, and Glory Be gives glory to the Holy Trinity.

The Hail Mary comes to us from Luke, where the words of Gabriel and the words of Elizabeth are joined with the exhortation for the intercession of Mary and the , from John 2 (the waiters asked for Mary’s intercession to her son regarding no more wine).

Anybody who compares these biblical prayers to the “empty phrases” that the Gentiles used when praying to Isis, golden calves, and sun gods is really stretching it.

Jesus Himself repeated his prayer to God the Father at least 3 times in scripture during the agony in the Garden (Matthew 26), which, by the way is one of the 20 non-vocal meditations of the Rosary, which come to us from scripture.

In Revelation 4:8, the 4 living creatures in heaven say the same prayer over and over again, day and night, without ceasing.

Of course, no one should just say the prayers of the rosary without meditating on the meaning of the 20 mysteries. The meditation on the mysteries, rather than concentrating on the words of the Hail Mary prayer, is the key to the success of the Rosary, as it unites vocal prayer with the meditations in the mind of the lives of Jesus and Mary, and it drives the devil crazy.

Me: Fundamentalist Christian

1) Isn't the "hail Mary prayer" a repetitious prayer?

Yes.

2) And isn't the second half of that prayer un scriptural because Almighty God cannot have a Mother.

No. (If I am mistaken: provide the Scripture!)

3) God always was and is immortal and the bible tells us Jesus is not God

That is exactly the opposite what the Bible teaches. Just one of very many examples:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2...

4) So why even say such a prayer that is un scriptural and repetitious when Jesus himself said it would only be in vain?

That is not what Jesus said. Read the passage that you quote! In it, *Jesus himself teaches us* what sort of repetition is vain. He very clearly does NOT identify repetitious prayer itself as "vain", but (on the contrary) condemns one very specific type of repetition: "vain repetition". What's more, in that passage **Jesus teaches us specifically and exactly what he means** by the phrase "vain repetitions"!!!

Conclusion: you have instilled meaning into Mat 6:7 that it simply does not and (in English) ***cannot*** possess. ***Read what the words themselves say*** - because THAT is what it means - NOT what you would LIKE for it to mean, but instead **what the words themselves** mean.

- Jim, http://www.bible-reviews.com/

The Bible tells us that the blessed mother is indeed the mother of God. You do not have to believe it but true Christians do believe the teaching of Scriptures. Jesus is God incarnate and the 2nd person of the Trinity of the one God. The Bible does not deny that Jesus is God as Arians, now known as Jehovah Witnesses, proclaim but as a result of their lack of belief they are condemned for all time by the authority of Christ given to the Church since the Council of Nicaea in 325AD. May the Lord have mercy on those who refuse to believe in Him.

Jesus never said that repetitious prayer was in vain but instead taught us to pray by His own actions when in his prayers before His crucifixion He personally prayed repetitiously. Jesus taught by actions and by word. What is forbidden in Scriptures is vain prayers and not repetitious prayers. It is never wrong to pray even in repetition. Jesus taught us to pray the "Our Father or Lord's prayer regularly and not just once in our lives.

If you are to learn the teaching of Scripture you need a reliable teacher and the Bible says that the Church is the only teaching authority and teaches that it is the Church that is the "pillar and foundation of the truth". This biblical fact to the heretics is like hot coals on their heads. God bless!

In Christ

Fr. Joseph

The repetitious prayer of the Holy Rosaries is recommended by St Paul:

St Paul recommends the people of Thessalonica to pray: “pray without ceasing” (1 Thes 5/ 17). Those words still apply in the depths of the Christians and their identity. By prayer we speak (address) to God and be closer to him. But how to pray unceasingly and concerns of life and its material functioning which hunt us? The apostle answers us: “Pray in the Spirit at all times” (Eph 6-18), we have to gain any permanent internal prayer, which is the continuing effort of the spirit to reach God, if we want to come to God we must increase our request and ask him to teaches us to pray continually.

... Thus until now we pray the Jesus prayer non-stop. [Lord Jesus Christ, son of Gof, have mercy on us sinners] To make us closer to God, to ease your trouble mind.

It's not any more "repetitive" than the Lord's Prayer. And if you don't believe that Jesus is God, then you're probably not going to get very far with most Christians.

The Hail Mary is repeated as a mantra while meditating on scripture.

The words are taken directly from scripture:

The greeting of Gabriel: Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you

The greeting of Elizabeth: Blessed are you among women.

Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.

The title Mother of GOD describes what she did, giving birth.

GOD entered creation as baby Jesus, making her Mother.

GOD is indivisible, Jesus is the embodiment of GOD.

Jesus spoke of VAIN repetition, specifically in reference to the Pharisees, who would pray as fast as they could, without even thinking of what they were saying, in order to cram as many prayers as possible into the allotted prayer time.

Jesus instructed us "When you pray, say ..." and then gave us what we call the Lord's Prayer. In your opinion, how many times could I say this prayer in one day before it became "repetitious"??

If God could not have a mother, then Mary's Son was not God, in which case Christianity is worthless. The death of a mere man could not have won salvation for us. However, Jesus said "Before Abraham came to be, I AM" - one of many places where He clearly stated that He was God.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God." (John 1:1)

Jesus is God in the flesh, so that would make Mary the Mother of God

The Hail Mary is completely Biblical

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. (Luke 1:28)

Blessed art thou among women (Luke 1:41-42a,Luke 1:48),

Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus (Luke 1:42b)

Holy Mary, Mother of God (Luke 1:43)

Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen (Luke 2:35, John 2:3-5)

Because Catholicism includes a rich tradition of formal prayer, many accuse Catholics of praying "in vain repetitions" in spite of the admonitions against them in Matthew 6:7. In doing so, they intimate that repeated prayers, because of repetition itself, are "vain" in the sense of being worthless or ineffectual. First, let it be understood from the get-go:

That Catholics pray in their own words in addition to formal prayers.

That Catholics are taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (2688) that "the memorization of basic prayers offers an essential support to the life of prayer, but it is important to help learners savor their meaning." In other words, formal prayer isn't (or at least shouldn't be) mindless lip-moving but instead a formal expression of clearly understood and heartfelt sentiments.

Now, the people who make these accusations 1 against Catholics don't understand, apparently:

That the verse in question reads, in the King James version, "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." The operative Greek word here for "vain repetitions" is battalogeo, or babbling. That is, the heathens had a magical perception of prayer and thought the more they babbled to their gods, the more that that god would respond: I Kings 18:26: "And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered."

That, two verses after the warning in Matthew against "vain repetitions," Jesus gave us the "Our Father" prayer which most Protestant Christians pray with no qualms about praying "in vain." The same command in Luke 11:2 reads: "And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father..." -- "when you pray, say..."

That Christ Himself prayed in repetitions. Matthew 26:44: "And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words". Mark 14:39 reads: "And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words."

That the angels pray repetitiously. Revelation 4:8: "...and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come."

That God commanded Moses to tell the Israelites: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up." (Deuteronomy 6:4-7)

That the Psalms are nothing but a collection of prayers and litanies which were prayed formally in the pre-Christian synagogues and early Christian churches, are still prayed in synagogues and Catholic churches today -- and were even prayed by Christ from the Cross.

That the liturgy of the synagogue was (and is) filled with repetition and formalized prayer. Christ said "use not vain repetitions, as the heathens do". Were the Jews heathens? They prayed (and still pray) the sh'ma twice a day and, in their liturgy, the Shemoneh Esrei, the Kaddish, the morning blessings, the Aleinu, etc. Check out a Jewish siddur (missal) sometime; does it look more typically Protestant or Catholic?

That hymns are prayers. Is it "vain" to sing "Amazing Grace" or "The Old Rugged Cross" more than once?

In addition, the earliest Christians (being Catholics) understood Christ's words as do modern Catholics. The 1st century Didache 8:2 (The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles) says:

Do not pray like the hypocrites, but rather as the Lord commanded in His Gospel, like this:

Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread, and forgive us our debt as we also forgive our debtors. And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one; for Thine is the power and the glory for ever..

Pray this three times each day.

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/didache.htm

Catholic Christian †

jesus is god. jesus came from heaven [his words ] and was born of the virgin mary .

even in rev. the saints and martys continually sing alleluia to the lord.