Jews, have you ever wondered why some Jews need a "Yeshiva" education?

Several points.

1) Those who say that no Jew with a Yeshiva education would put their faith in Messiah Yeshua – FALSE. I have listed only a few here.

2) Yeshivas ONLY teach from one side! So if you want truth – you have to examine evidence and you will never get a fair look at the evidence there.

3) What is wrong with questioning tradition? What is wrong with truth?

Here are a few MJ’s whom they would say have no Jewish education.

WARSZAWIAK, Hermann (b. 1865) born in Warsaw, the son of a well-known rabbi, head of the Hassidim. When sixteen years old, he married the daughter of a rich banker in Lodz, and went there to live with his wife's parents. As he hungered for the fulfillment of promises in Isaiah and Jeremiah, the direction of his preaching worried many and his family thought it best to send him back to Warsaw for a while, leaving wife and children behind. Then one day in Germany, driven by his spiritual hunger, after three months of intense discussion and searching of the Scriptures in Hebrew with someone who was a believer, he finally came to the only conclusion possible: Yeshua was the promised Jewish Messiah!

SHULAM, Joseph Baruch (b. 1946) Born in Sofia, Bulgaria on March 24, 1946. His family immigrated to Israel in 1948, where they settled in Jerusalem. In 1962, he came to faith in Yeshua the Messiah. He was educated at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, where he received a B.A. in Bible and Bible Archeology. He later came to the United States and studied at David Lipscomb College in Nashville, Tennessee, where he received a B.A. in Chemistry and biblical Studies. Upon completion of his B.A., he returned to Israel where he has since been involved in the local Messianic Jewish community.

RABINOWITZ, Joseph ben David(1837-1899), Orthodox (Chasidic) Rabbi of Kishinev in Bessarabia (Russia), Hebrew scholar and writer. After the pogroms of 1881, he sought a Jewish homeland to solve the Jewish dilemma. He arrived in Jerusalem in 1882, representing Russian Jews, and while standing on the Mount of Olives, overlooking Jerusalem, he realized that "Jesus, our brother" was the only solution. On returning to Kishinev in 1885, he established the first modern messianic congregation called "the First Assembly of the Israelites of the New Covenant." Talmudic scholar and lawyer Joseph Rabinowitz, through writings and sermons, begins influencing Russian Jews to become "Sons of the New Covenant." He draws up a list of 12 articles of faith, patterned after Maimonides's 13 principles, but proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah.

TOO many more to list here.

Do not believe the Jewish people (whom I love) on Yahoo Answers about this topic. They mean well, but really are very ignorant on this topic.

In detail as to lineage, birthplace, time, and lifestyle, Jesus matched the Messianic expectations of the Hebrew Scriptures about the Suffering Servant. The record of this fulfillment is to be found in the pages of the New Covenant. But several other factors combine to further substantiate the Messiahship of Jesus. Too much to list here.

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Dr. Michael Brown has given definitive answers to virtually all of the arguments using Rabbinic (Talmudic) sources and a correct interpretation of scripture that even the ancient Rabbis agreed with! (Not that they believed in Yeshua, but Dr. Brown shows they understood certain passages as Messianic prophecies).

Read a great 5 VOLUME SET – ANSWERING JEWISH OBJECTIONS TO JESUS!

It will stop EVERY Jewish unbeliever’s misinterpretations and objections based upon the solid evidence of the Hebrew text. An amazing five volume set by Dr. Michael Brown (New York University, Ph.D., Near Eastern Languages)

I believe you miss the point completely. Feivel posted that question in response to something he wrote in another question. One of the "Messianic Jews" in responding to that question claimed to have a more Jewish upbringing than some of his opponents on Yahoo Answers. Feivel's response was to ask what Yeshiva the person went to.

I believe his point is to illustrate that while only some Jews here may have gone to Yeshiva that alone puts them in a category that leaves the "Messianic Jews" here at a disadvantage. And that is that Yeshiva education gives one a solid background in Judaism. And it seems that that solid background in Judaism, while not a guarantee that a person while not become an apostate, nevertheless makes it rare.

This has certainly been my personal observation. I can't think of a single person with a Yeshiva education who became a "Messianic Jew". Many of the "Messianic Jews" here and elsewhere seem to be the exact opposite. They exhibit an ignorance of Judaism (yet nevertheless seem to pontificate about what they know little of). It certainly explains this post in which you bizarrely claim that a Yeshiva education is largely irrelevant to Judaism in the modern age.

I will say one thing.

In the final run, what matters most is what is the truth not what one's education was. But how well do you think the uneducated would fair against the educated when trying to ascertain that truth?

Update: There is a difference between a Yeshiva Ketana and a Yeshiva Gedola. Also there is a difference between a Yeshiva and a Jewish day/high school. The later may "sometimes" use the label Yeshiva but it is not a Yeshiva. The modern Yeshiva predates Zionism and was not a response to it.

Also, planner, who converted to Christianity first, you or your son?

Update: It is quite interesting that the person asking the questions knows very little about Judaism yet feels qualified to state that one remains uneducated in Torah if they didn't study Plaut et al. What's worse is that this entire thing is merely an exercise in distraction fom the issue at hand. And that is that "Messianic Jews" by and large, do not have a well rounded Jewish education and when debating thosewho have, it shows. It seems the latest tactic is to be dismissive of that background by marginalizing it.

For the record, outside the usa and Canada, Reform is actually small. And the largest group of Jews is unaffiliated. While that circumstance is unfortunate, it certainly doesn't dictate what the actual nature of Judaism is or what constitutes "Torah scholarship".

Update for "kosher": I never claimed that it is impossible for a Jew to become an apostate... even if hey have a Yeshiva background. I have said I have never heard of one or personally encountered one. Your list reinforces that point where you reach back to the 19th century for examples of Meshumadim. No recent examples? After all, you say you were a "Messinic Jew" for 27 years. Did none of your corelgionists have that background?

Yes, that would be so that we can understand our faith and our obligations as Jews.

Your understanding of a Yeshiva education is incorrect as "just the minority view that reached its intellectual climax about after the prophets went missing or between 1000 and 1200 CE". We study Halacha and various interpretations of it, including some people of today.

Why would Orthodox Jews care about what a Reform Jew, who does not believe in Orthodox Judaism say about our education system. On the other hand, you, as a xian, who plays Jewish dress up, would probably do not understand. Am I to suppose you have no desire for xian schools to continue either.

the difference.

Once again, your question or answer displays a total lack of Jewish understanding. This is because you are xian, though granted, you want to call it something else that you think implies something else. In addition you are a "converted messianic Jew" does that mean you were xian and converted to "messianic Judaism" or were born to a secular Jewish mother?? Of course, if that were the case you apparently would not have needed to convert as you would have been born Jewish and would simply see "messianic Judaism" as somehow, just another branch of Judaism, which it is not.

At the very least, you would have learned how belief in jesus is against Torah AND that the "nt" is NOT Talmud.

So, great....I will put you down on the list I knew you belonged on. "No Yeshiva education"

@planner- So did he convert you or did you convert him. Clearly you share belief in jesus.

EDIT:

Do we study some works by some Jews we do not agree with? Yes. Do we study works by men who think other than we do? Yes. Is that the foundation of our study? Of course not. I have studied many different religions and many different theologians. I have read works by Reform Jews. I don't study them as I do other works as I disagree with them. We focus more on our own religion and our own perspective of it. I stand by "why would I care about a Reform Jew's views of Orthodox education" that does not mean we don't at times read Reform Jews or Conservative Jewish works.

If I cannot "intelligently answer the question" then again, I assume you see now need for a xian education system or a muslim one. In fact, I assume you would be against all religious education...unless that education studies things you do not want them study.

It means when someone starts a question that says "Jews:" the asker is addressing it to be people who are Jews. Believing in something that goes against Torah would, at the very least, make them an apostate and at the worst (and usual case) a mere poser.

When did Orthodox Judaism grow past a personal relationship with G-d? I must have missed that in my 25 years as an Orthodox Jew. Once again....you prove yourself as someone who knows nothing of real Judaism, let alone Orthodox Judaism and yet you speak as though you know about it.

Tell me, when you go to your church (that you call a Synagogue) do you wear a kippah? When you evangelize (if you do so), do you wear a kippah? I am so very curious.

As an Orthodox Judaism what I admit is that Torah is eternal, as G-d says. The Mitzvot are binding for all Jews for all time, as G-d says and there was nothing to "grow past". The Mishnah is the oral law. The Gemara is debates and discussions of that law.

You didn't answer my question. You are a "messianic convert". From that I can take you are not in the least bit Jewish? I guess a kippah maybe makes you Jewish huh? Ah well, most real Jews know who are posers and those who have real Jewish educations, aren't persuaded anyway. Some groups are little more than comical sidelines in life.

Yeshivas in the neighborhood I used to live in were Orthodox, so I doubt that they would get into modern Rabbinical studies at such young ages.

Why go there? To learn Hebrew so that you can study Torah in its original language. To learn how to say the prayers in Hebrew. To connect with others of your tribe in order to support the cultural heritage? This is especially important for the Cohanim who are direct-line descendants of Moses and Aaron (allegedly).

When the Jews entered into the covenant with God at the national revelation at Sinai,

we were unable to bear the direct revelation past the Ten Utterances and so we asked Moses to go up and receive the details of the covenant.

When Moses returned from learning with God,

he sat with those who he appointed as judges,

and those he designated as scribes,

and the leaders of the clans

and the houses

and the families and he taught them all that he had learned in his fourty days of direct revelation.

And they taught the next generation,

and so forth ...until the establishment of the modern academies of learning in Ezra's time (ie: the"Yeshivot") ...and onwards to today.

Generaly, those who have not had the opportunity to be educated in the Yeshivot, ask questions from those who were,

but, unfortunately, there are always those who wallow in their ignorance and form fanciful flights of imagination to justify themselves, and from time to time make up a variety of cults and religions that lionise ignorance and badmouth scholarship.

yeshiva is traditionally the study of the torah and talmud, but there are several styles and denominations of yeshiva, so what one would study there depends upon which type or style or denomination one chose to attend.

when my son was in elementary school, he attended a conservative yeshiva which taught the hebrew language and studies in talmud, torah, midrash, halacha, and philosophy the first half of the day and regular secular studies the second half of the day.

there are also non-denominational yeshivas which teach a wider range of philosophies from various modern writers and there are of course reform yeshivas which are geared to training young people to become rabbis.

the main thrust of all yeshivas is of course torah and talmud, but most include other rabbinic literature, responses (observances) , ethics, and some form of mystics like hasidic philosophy or kabbalah, or the works of thinkers like Abraham Kook.

the type of yeshiva you are referring to is probably the lithuanian style which focused on internalizing judaism in order to fight the political movement of zionism in the early 1900's. they focused on self developement in order to try to dissuade jews from going to zion.

as for meeting a messianic jew who had a yeshiva education....let me introduce you to my son samuel. he spent 7 years in yeshiva, lived in israel for two years and is now born again and fully messianic, knowing and bowing down to the King of kings and Lord of lords, Yashua ha meshiach.

I'd love to have a yeshiva education. That's not likely to happen, so for now I'll make do with consulting people like Feivel who have gained my trust and respect.

To learn their religion.