Is it the teachers responsibility to point out lies on this forum?

Gee-I did not make the list; I am not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing though. As for teaching I did not start teaching on my own until after I had my black-belt in Shito-ryu and that was after studying and training in martial arts for almost 13 years. Not all of that was in Shito-ryu and I did teach under the supervision of black-belts otherwise as a brown belt for 3-4 years there. Back then brown belts were required to teach under the supervision of black-belts so that they could better learn things themselves as well as develop their ability to teach. Lets face it-one of the ways you get better at something and gain more understanding of it is by helping or teaching others and so there is that added benefit to consider some here.

I do see where you are going though with your question in your last statement about a good instructor only looking the other way for so long. A good instructor will not look the other way at all really nor accept substandard performance, knowledge, or skill which compromises his own high standards. I have stated as much here in this forum before and that many instructors shoot themselves in the foot by doing that rather than instead taking the time to correct and fix deficiencies in their students early on or when they are lower ranking. You can't ignore things and say they will learn to do something better or differently later when older or higher ranking; that's not going to happen. Instead students will tend to do that which they have been doing and practicing incorrectly and doing poorly later-they won't suddenly be able to change that. Oftentimes it harder to change it and break bad habits and them relearn something than fixing and correcting it in the beginning is what I have found.

It also really shoots that student in the foot in them reaching their fullest potential as well and one of the things wrong with teaching martial arts today in many schools and studios. This and many of your watered down programs and instructors in them are second and third generation now with each subsequent generation being more watered down than the one before it.

For me I try to stem the tide of this and give others the benefit of my knowledge, skill, and ability along with the experience I have acquired in doing martial and fighting arts for 45 years. Half of that at least has been learning-not just teaching and one of the beauties of martial and fighting arts is that there is always something else to learn and a good martial artist should never stop learning is what I have found.

Since this is a martial arts forum, the terms 'instructor' and 'teacher' do have special meanings and a difference between the two. An instructor is also a teacher, in the modern sense of the word. Yet a teacher is not a sensei or sifu, though in both situations, they teach. A sensei or sifu has an added responsibility to impart dangerous knowledge, if there is such a thing, only to responsible students with good moral character. On the other hand, an instructor may not have that moral obligation after-all, the more 'secrets' he imparts, the more students he may get. Besides this distinction, an instructor, teacher, sifu, should correct 'lies' and 'wrong execution' of a technique. He owes the students that much.

Yes, it is the responsibility of the instructor or sifu to correct a lie, but the how and when it will be done will be the instructor's choosing after taking into the account of the student's maturity and experience. For instance, I do not believe in 'qi-ball' though myself do believe in cultivating qi. And, perhaps, I do not possess that many levels of understanding qi that I think throwing qi-ball is a lie. Could there be a truth somewhere in between qi-cultivation internally and the external manifestation of a qi-ball that could be thrown to hurt an opponent? Perhaps so. Thus, as an instructor, it is best to own up with a humble 'don't know' or analyse the question and reason out with the student. Instructors or even sifus do not have all the answers.

One of the often repeated assertions is that Chinese Martial Arts no matter what family-fist are useless and it will be followed by a deluge of answers condemning the assertion. Is there no truth to it? Such an assertion is followed by another, claiming that it must be the truth since there are no CMA exponents in the MMA circuit. Again, there will be a deluge of answers with a host of names of MMA fighters with background training in CMA. Whoever is making such claims is blind to history and how Sanda or San Shou are developed. This is like Iran saying that the Holocaust did not occur. I had answered such an allegation long time back, and after knowing that minds are closed, it is sheer futility to try to answer them. So in such instances, an instructor should be informed and knowledgeable to correct a lie.

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In general then, an instructor passes on as much as possible what was taught to him. That is his moral obligation. If it was hokey pokey, then perhaps hoke poke, with something short, to his students. To be able to convey exactly what were taught to him or more than mere hokey pokey will depend on his exposure and understanding of the system. In fact, in the absence of in-depth knowledge, there are instructors who interpreted techniques according to their understanding and reading of the movement. If the reading and interpretation is correct and there is utility and common sense, then it is all's well and benefits his students. Otherwise, I'll not blame KW for laughing his head off. As said, anything more than the hokey pokey will depend on the maturity of the instructor, not in terms of biological age, but like wine, aging and gestation process in martial arts and quality of his martial education. To be creative, that is to be able to create a style or system will depends more than just maturity, it requires extensive knowledge of other systems and creativity. The founder of 7-Star Praying Mantis School was a good example, and so were Baquazhang lineages of Yin and Cheng with their sub-systems and variations. All these founders of various systems added more than the hokeys pokeys to be outstanding martial artists and 'instructors'. Coming back to the theme, there are of course people who knew some moves and station themselves as instructors when they themselves were, to borrow your words, shaking all over. It takes all kinds to make the world go round. So, caveat emptor!

I'll keep this short. My answer is yes. We have a responsibility to correct things that we know are wrong. Over the years I have watched more and more people begin to study the martial arts. Many people would see this as progress for the martial arts and a good thing. I'm not so sure. while the popularity of MA are at an all time high, misconceptions and ignorance about it, its practice, and it terminology are even higher than it was when I started training in the 60's.

And yes I understand the frustration you are feeling concerning one person in particular. No matter how many times we correct what he spouts off, he neither learns from it or has any desire to change, learn, or grow. Personally I think his ego and vindictiveness rule his actions. I think he would rather drop dead than to listen to anyone else. That being especially true of several of us. Nothing more need I say about that individual.

We are all ignorant until we are not. None of us knows how much we don't know. The misconceptions are rampant and forums and the internet only make it easier for anyone to parrot what they read. If we seniors do not try to correct things they will surely get worse and at a faster rate. Bottom line here is some people come here and are willing to listen and learn. Some are here to cause trouble, some to say what they think. Many of the incorrect answers come not from people that intend to spread incorrect information. Sometimes they mean well and believe what they are saying. I tell people to remember this. Sincerity is no guarantee of truth. Some of the most sincere people are wrong.

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In life there are some things we can not change simply because we have no control over others and only over ourselves. I do not believe that one has to accept wrong things as truths but fighting something one can not change is a waste of time which would be better spent teaching those who are willing to learn. Some people simply choose not to learn be it out of pride, ego or fear of having to admit that they were wrong and did not know everything or whatever. This is the price of the freedom to choose. Everything in life has a price.

There are some things we can change and I do believe that it takes courage to change these things. Most of us have many responsibilities and sometimes it is hard to take on yet another struggle and then simply offering help without confrontation to the best of one's ability is definitely a good alternative over doing nothing at all. Too much confrontation in one's life is not good for a person and I think each person must choose how much they want and can take on at a time. That often depends on how much else is going on in your life already and I would hardly give Y/A top priority.

I believe in people being responsible and those who sincerely want answers will find them. I also believe that if someone who is a bad teacher and knows that he is a bad teacher but continues to teach and take money for services not rendered is also responsible but not to me but his students. Sometimes students will choose a bad teacher on purpose because they know not much will be required of them and they can keep up without much effort. Then they are responsible for having made this choice.

I have been around the block enough times to know that one person alone can not safe the world but one person can make a difference for a few people and if a lot of people can make a difference for a few then there will be a difference for a lot more people. I know that a few of the more senior contributors have made a difference for me and I appreciate them being on here and sharing their knowledge. I hope I have done the same for some people.

Oh boy. I thought I write a lot. LOL!

I think a teacher and instructor are the same. Either way, that person not only has to understand the material, but must also understand the student. And a good teacher will inspire the student. Patience counts. Knowledge counts. Experience counts. Respect for the student and subject material counts. A teacher who cannot inspire, or who does not understand the material, or has no experience, patience, or respect - is no teacher at all.

I've been practicing martial arts for 33 years, but I've been instructing on my own for 8 years, and had been assisting for about 4 years prior to that. But I've also been teaching computer subjects for 25 years, partly as a professional trainer, and partly as a technical lead. By profession, I must explain my work to project stakeholders, or they don't bankroll my projects. As Einstein once said, if you can't explain something simply, then you simply don't understand it. And that is a requisite for being a good teacher.

I hear what you are saying about positive reinforcement. But I respectfully disagree to some extent: a teacher who has a student who - by all outward appearances - is a miserable student will never be able to cultivate that student without first breaking down whatever barriers that prevent that student from learning. I am frustrated as hell when I go to Aikido classes: I NEVER leave with a compliment. But I know the instructors know their subject material well, and I know their teaching skills are not as strong as mine, so I tolerate it. They don't know I'm a martial arts and computer science instructor, so I forgive them for that. But they lose a lot of students who quit and go somewhere else: they did not inspire.

There is nothing wrong with telling a student who demonstrates mediocre results - as long as they gave 100% effort. To these students, I will look for anything to compliment them on, and then at the same time give them something to work on. Most students do not react well to critique. Most react well to positive reinforcement. So, there's nothing wrong with capitalizing on that. But the instructor can't just leave it at that. If the student must stick around longer at their rank, so be it. In a life-long journey of martial arts, a few extra months at a rank is not a big deal. And therein lies the requisite for patience. A teacher who tries to shove stuff down a student's throat is bound to overwhelm the student - or give them too much knowledge to either be dangerous to himself or to your business.

Is it a teacher's job to call BS when s/he sees it? No, that's not a requisite. That's a personality thing. Anyone with knowledge - instructor or not - can call out BS if they want. I don't like what Keyboard Warrior says about Aikido or Taekwondo, and I occasionally say something about it directly to him. But most of the time I focus on the knowledge, source it when I can, and leave it to people with intelligence to figure out what is right and what is snake oil.

To be fair, I kind of agree with the principle that different systems are intrinsically variable in merit. People like to say 'it's not the art, it's the practitioner' which is of course true to an extent, but surely it's right to look at what people are learning objectively? Personally I'm not willing to believe on pure faith that every martial art out there is based on equally sound principles or espouse equally effective techniques, especially as some of them have rarely (if ever) been properly pressure tested. A good teacher is great, but if what they're teaching is flawed then there's a problem. We should all be open to criticism of our art as long as it's conducted in a mature, respectful manner

We all know he lies since this seem to be about one person. There is nothing that we can do that will change this. I'm not sure if it was him or someone else that was associated with him that said to me it is a hyperbole. LOL That is still a lie no matter how you try to justify it.

It is not anyone one her responsibility to police what he says or what anyone else says. We can give of good information. The readers can choose to accept or reject it. They all have free choice. We don't have to attack anyone or make things personal.

If you let someone get you all bent out of shape you have given them too much power over you. No one has the right to that much power or influence.

I believe we should present what we know to be true. Then it is up to individual to accept or reject it. It they reject it, it is their loss.

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Positive reinforcement works. Some does punishment. Both work. But you impossible to use any form of punishment over the internet. You can't force a zebra to change its stripes. KW is who he is whether you like or not or whether I like it or not. Just accept him for being who he is. If you disagree with what he post then you can post what you believe to be true. Then move on. We can't force anyone to accept our truths as he can't force anyone to accept his truths. People will receive or reject what everyone of us says. Like Kokoro mentioned I don;t always agree with callsign. But we can disagree with each other without being disagreeable. I don;t attack callsign. He doesn't attack me. He will disagree with me and vice versa. Doing anything beyond this will not change anything. I may disagree with something pugspaw says. he may disagree with me. We may have a different level of understanding on somethings.

None of us are responsible for what happens on this forum. Sure we want it to be a place were we can learn and share knowledge. But we are only responsible as teachers as to what is done in our schools and in our homes. We are not in control of the flow on truth and lies presented here.

He's giving an opinion based on his experience. You know, just like everyone else here.

"Correcting" people doesn't matter if a) it's an opinion and b) they're not going to listen anyway. Is he really "lying" or is he stating an opinion that's different from yours and mine?

If you've got facts to bring to the table, cite sources. Everyone should be held to that standard, but honestly, since there's hardly any oversight here, very few will.

lets see were to begin, beside i do agree with you, and we do have a responsibility to correct what is wrong. i do enjoy pointing out how much he lies or makes mistakes, i doubt he will change he is too close minded and arrogant. besides he loves to cause controversy

the even funnier part is he contradict himself from one question to the next. it only makes himself look like the fool, especially when he is so obviously wrong and the proof is so evident. he is like a child trying to prove his parents wrong and he knows better, but he is constantly failing at it and falling short. i bet its because his own training is inadequate

and just think someday he might figure out the chinese kempo and okinawan kempo are two different things. its funny when people dont even know what they trained in it makes them look like more of the fool

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i clash with callsign quite a bit. but i enjoy that because at lease with him i can have a reasonable discussion about the subject, and its not full of a bunch of lies.