Christian and jewish torah?

Hmn.

A theoreticaly simple question with a complex answer.

(1) The Old Testament is different depending on which branch of Christianity you belong to.

The closest to the Jewish Bible is the Protestant one because they purposefully removed all of the books from the Old Testament which had not been part of the Jewish cannon.

(2) Nevertheless, the Protestant Old Testament still has the books reordered and often bifurcated (ie: in the Jewish traditional manner - Samuel is one book, Kings is one book... etc. - this may seem small - but if the book ends, the reader may consider a story to be over, when in reality it is cut in the middle)

(3) Aparently small and aparently valid translator choices may make for a tremendous difference in understanding.

Plus, many English-speaking Christians have further issues because the aparent meaning of an English passage written 100 years ago can be completely different today.

My currently favorite example of this (from the TV show "Sleepy Hollow") is that in the time of the revolutionary war "Awful Intercourse" meant Great Conversation.

So -- Yes

When it comes to the aparently horrible ancient Jewish laws -- the most simple answer is that Christians have misunderstood them.

And the fact of the matter is -- Christians were already not understanding them at the time the New Testament was created.

Consider that in the New Testament story, in reply to some Pharisees reminding Jesus to wash up for dinner, Jesus gets realy angry and chatises the Pharisees "Why are you not executing your misbehaving children?" (Matthew 15)

Ofcourse - the Jewish answer is simple -- because that is not what this law is about.

And yes -- the same is true on the issues of slavery and rape.

Here is the overview for how to consider the Jewish laws in the Torah --

Imagine a Chinese fellow who had a Chinese translation of the American Constitution that was made from a Cuban Spanish translation of the American Constitution. This Chinese fellow then attempted to understand the whole American legal system from his translation.

Its not that the translators purposefully "lied" but firstly they made a whole bunch of translation choices that influenced the text, and secondly -- that single text is just not nearly anywhere close to "the whole story".

While the Christian Old Testament was based on the Tanach, the OT was modified to support the teachings of Christianity. Some of these modifications may seem small but aren't while others are glaring.

The most obvious changes are the order of the books with the texts being reorganized in the OT in an attempt to better support Christian prophecy. One of the biggest changes in this regard is that the Christian Church turned Daniel into a prophet when he is not, and has never been a prophet in Jewish tradition.

Other changes are the removal and addition of text and changes to words and grammar. Depending on the Christian sects, there are whole books that were added.

You might think that a grammar change wouldn't make much of a difference. However, capitalising the word 'he' means a radical change to meaning an context. Then there's the issues of a virgin, piercings, etc.

There are also differences in numbering, that means that when quoting texts to Jews using the numbering found in a Christian OT means the necessity of looking up the chapter in question to not only find the actual verse but also looking to see if the verse in question actually exists.

The problem isn't that parts were left out or removed. There's really two problems, one being the accuracy of the Christian translations and the second being the way that it is understood.

Recently I saw a question about the differences between the Jewish Tanach and the Christian "OT". There was a Christian who was quoting the Jewish Tanach but adding Christian commentary without realizing the translation they were quoting simply didn't support their commentary.

>In the Christian Bibles *I grew up with*, the old and the new testaments were one book, teaching both Hebrew and Christian beliefs. But since Bibles have been translated repeatedly and councils (Christian) convened to decide what should be Canon and what not,

You're 1660 years old?

No its not. Its a good question. We do not have the New Testament. That is the Christian Bible itself. There are little differences. Such as, its typically in Hebrew and when its not some of the names are proper. Also the books are organized in a diffent way.

The God and commandments, statutes, etc., of the Old Testament are only for the people who made YHWH their God? "I will be your God and seperate you from all the people of the world, as long as you obey my laws, hollow thy Sabbaths, otherwise I will send plagues on you as I did to the Egyptians.

Then Jesus comes and pleads that the same people follow him and his commandments which severly conflict with YHWH commandments, laws, statutes, and festivals? But the Israelites respected Jesus and because of the miracles Jesus did they put their hope in him that he would return to return Jerusalem back to them and Christianity began and some are waiting for him while others actually listened to him and are suffering to be worthy of everlasting life.

The 'Old Testament' is a specifically Christian translation of the Hebrew scripture, and differs from the Hebrew scripture in several different ways.

More details here - http://home.comcast.net/~fiddlerzvi/j4j_no.html

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The Old testament is basically that G-d made a covenant with Abraham that in Isaac the son of the promise His seed would be called. G-d speaks of Himself as being the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jacob had 12 sons, the twelve tribes of Israel, and Joseph was thrown into the pit by his brothers seeing he had a dream and Jacob seemed to favour him. He was made ruler in Egypt and the Jacob and his sons moved to Egypt as there was a famine in the land.

the pharoah who didnt know Joseph saw that G-d multipled the Israelites and pharaoh being afraid they would increase in numbers made them slaves in Egypt. G-d delivered them out of Egypt but they had to kill an unblemished lamb and smear the blood on the doorpost so that the angel of death would pass over. The Jewish Passover. God brought them out of Egypt with a might hand, and drove out other nations before them who practiced abominable things which were evil in the eyes of the Lord, and Israel was warned not to do likewise. Aaron was chosen to be the High priest whom had to offer a sacrifice for himself and then offer an unblemished lamb as an atonement for the sins of the people once a year.

Christ became that lamb who sealed the new covenant which is spoken of in Jeremiah 31 verse 31 with His blood as now Christ overcame death, for us, and is now our High Priest who makes intercession for us when we come with a contrite spirit and humble in heart.

the sacrifices which were in the Old testament were a foreshadowing of things to come, so that no more need of sacrifices but a spirit of praise and thankfullness for

The Lord G-d sending His Son Christ Jesus, with adame came death with Christ eternal life.

Oh and Kaganate it has nothing to do with translations, it is wether one believes the Word of God in their heart as it is with the heart one believes and gives praise and glory to the

Lord G-d of Israel

regarding Matthew 15 yes the pharisee rebuked Christ for his disciples not washing their hands, and Christ replied that why did they not follow the commandments of G-d to honour father and mother by saying it is a gift by whatsoever thou might be profited by me." therefore making the commandment of G-d having no effect by their traditions" and that the people honoured G-d with their lips but their hearts were far from Him. as traditions do not save.

It almost the same as what some churches teach "what you give you give to G-d" but since the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereoff, what can you really give to the Lord G-d except listening to His Word and believing on His Word so giving honour and glory to Him?

if there is even a christian torah, there will be typos and mistranslations im sure. i read somewhere that the books are in the wrong order too =\