Mormons, what do you think of the story of the birth of your religion?

Most of them will tell you that you've got it all wrong, and that the true history is much different than that. And that's the key to your answer. Mormons ARE told a different version than what an objective outsider researching the history would see. Mormons are taught a "faith promoting" version of the history. They never hear about the treasure hunting schemes, the bank fraud, the secret marriages, the recovered "Abraham scrolls", etc, etc. The history is whitewashed and dolled-up to the point that it all just "makes sense" to Mormons who hear it, already wanting to believe it.

But I will disagree with you that it was a poorly executed scam. It was brilliantly executed...that is until the end when Joseph let the power go to his head and his abuses got too extreme and it all fell apart. Luckily for the church, Brigham Young was there to pick up the pieces, seize power, and take the church out into the wild where it could survive.

I grew up a faithful, believing, super-active Mormon. I served in various leadership capacities, went on a 2 year mission, went through the Mormon temple, etc. Then I started researching the history and realized that the actual facts are something quite different than what I had been taught all my life in Sunday School. Once that trust was broken, it was like sliding down a slippery hill. The "faith promoting" glasses were off, and every new thing I researched made it more and more clear that the Mormon church's foundation claims just don't hold up.

It sounds like you learned of our history from a hostile source. The truth is quite different.

In real life, there were many people who saw both the gold plates and the angel Moroni; one was a protestant preacher. Several people held the plates and thumbed through them. There is abundant first-hand eye witness testimony.

There is also a wealth of testimony from people who saw visions with the prophet Joseph Smith. He wasn't alone when Peter, James and John appeared to him, and at least two other people saw Christ with him at the Temple. Once a bodyguard was with him and saw with him a vision of Adam, sitting on a throne. There really is no good explanation for this, other than the one given.

The healing miracles were not scams either; but were witnessed by critics and believers alike. Mary Johnson was not a member, but came to visit the prophet with two friends, one a minister, the other an atheist. While sitting with them, Joseph Smith commanded that her withered arm, which she had not been able to use for many years, be made whole. It was immediately healed, and according to her own testimony, worked just as well as the other arm after that. Her friends were baffled by the whole thing.

Joseph Smith's gifts as a seer were also well attested. When Zions camp ran out of drinkable water (200 men), he took a shovel and dug a one foot hole. Enough water poured out to fill every container in camp.

Then of course there is the obvious: we have the revelations and the Book of Mormon for all to see. They don't look fake at all. They have withstood the test of time and scrutiny.

Nor did the spiritual gifts of Joseph Smith die with him; they are still to be found in the church today, and in great abundance.

I think it sounds pretty crazy.

Almost as crazy as another story I heard once about a virgin giving birth to the Savior of mankind. But not quite. (and don't even get me started on that other story I've heard about the entire universe once being the size of a pin-head)

1) Twelve people testified to their deaths that they had seen the plates. Even though most of them later turned against Joseph Smith, none of them ever denied that witness.

2) You'll have to explain more about his life and behavior that you do not find suitable. But willingly handing yourself over to the authorities when you know that doing so will get you killed is generally not a reliable indicator that you're a crook.

3) By stating that you will never change your mind, you are making a decision without knowing that you have all of the information.

4) I do believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. I know he had flaws. I know I have flaws too, so I can hardly condemn him for his mistakes. But I understand that all men make mistakes, and if God works through mortals to accomplish his work, it would be illogical to expect that God's servants would be perfect men.

5) I have read, studied, pondered, and prayed about the Book of Mormon. That is the foundation for my belief in Joseph Smith. Add that to the incredible learning experiences I have had while involved in the Church that Joseph Smith founded, and it makes it pretty hard to deny. No evil man created this church, I can promise you that.

Sounds like your story came from a rumor of a rumor of a rumor. I cannot even relate to much of what you said.

It is an illustration of the dark side of the internet.

Mormons place a high priority on spiritual guidance. Without the Holy Ghost, we are just driven by the philosophies of men or some misguided analysis of the bible. Most members accept the church as true because they received a power spiritual witness (most likely of the Book of Mormon) which you could not understand unless you experienced it. I am sure that Joseph Smith was a prophet. But for me, it is irrelevant because I know with certainty that the Book of Mormon is what it claims to be. It is proof to an individual that there really is a God.

However, since many can only accept physical data, here are the signed testimonies of 11 others who saw the plates and Joseph Smiths testimony in his own words:

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/three?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/eight?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/js?lang=eng

Try living in Carthage your whole life. I visit the jail every couple of years. Every single time the story has changed. Hell they used to have a little glass box on the floor supposedly covering his bloodstain. Except that it was fire engine red...then it would fade to orange....then be fire engine red again. The bullet holes in the door are also perfectly round...such as a drill would make. Never mind the fact that it was a working jailhouse for years after that and was a personal residence until the Mormons bought it.

Hell they even think the Carthage Greys betrayed them and only had blanks....in muskets....which was not a thing back then.,

That doesn't even come close to his other ridiculous claims. Like Native Americans were Israelis. Jesus was white. Etc etc etc.

Nor do Mormons admit WHY he and his brother were in jail. Substantiated claims of Treason, Brigandage and Piracy. Which is WHY the mob went after him.

Mormons don't think... beyond what their church tells them to think. There is no culture of independent thought within the walls of the LDS. I know. When growing up mormon in Utah, each time I asked pointed questions in classes about the obvious vagaries in mormonism vs. what the bible actually said, the teachers either got really angry, ignored my question, or just shouted me down then reported MY "irrational attitude" to my parents.

Sadly, they are never told the factual truth about the history of their church. It's been so sanitized, even the sanitizers now believe their own bleached stories. However, increasingly more mormons are becoming suspicious of the constant smell of bleach in the rarified air within LDS walls. Which is why they have more LAX and EX-mormons than active mormons presently.

i think it was true the minute i first received a copy of the book of mormon and first read the testimony of joseph smith. although his testimony is far greater than my own, i did fast and pray and deprived myself of sleep, until the invisible spirit of revelation came upon me. i was taught by something like telepathy to know things i would never have known except by this kind of revelation, and btw, i was raised without any religion and had only be a born again believer because of the bible for about 2 or 3 years. max. i sought to know which church was true, so that i might grow in the righteousness and holiness that the church could apply support and strenght if not fellowship too. i believe Daniel describes the LDS church, the church of jesus christ of latter day saints and that the kingdom of God, will be upon the earth in the last days, before the Radiant appearance of Jesus Christ, in glory. i think today is the day of the kingdom of God on earth. and it is the church of jesus christ of latter days saints. and because Joseph smith talked of the kingdom of God being "restored" it includes the restoration of the gospel of jesus Christ and it includes the restoration of the priesthood. i dont believe any protestand or baptist has this authority NOR the priesthood. becasue of the fact that the bible teaches the apostasy of all truth and the gospel of jesus christ. and since we have not had the antichrist appear, YET, there has not been any previous dispensation or kingdom of the devil that has controlled the whole world till now, and the fact that Jesus has not ended all babylon and dominion of the devil also proves that the 2nd coming or the radiant glory of his appearance has not yet happened. ! thats what i think is the truth. i may not be like an apostle or the prophet in this church with their authority! but i am a witness of jesus Christ.

The birth of every religion involved a trickster.

The mormon one was a little more obvious than most.

You can oversimplify anything and make it sound ridiculous.

There were witnesses to the plates, and they never denied that they saw the plates in their life.

If it was a poorly executed scam, I don't see how it could have gathered millions of members and billions of dollars. You at least have to concede he was one of the greatest conman ever or a prophet of God.

A person can know with certainty Catholicism is the One True Faith by saying the angelic psalter of Mary daily and with care.