Sugar Ray Leonard from the no mas fight vs Roberto Duran from Brawl Of Monteral 1st fight?

Here's the thing. Leonard's mindset in the 'No Mas' fight was to frustrate, embarrass, and mock Roberto Duran - whether by using outside boxing, movement, potshots, etc. His intentions were not to try to use old school boxing-punching or inside fighting. On top of that, it wasn't the same Roberto Duran that he had met in the first fight.

No excuses. The fact and reality remains - Leonard outboxed and forced Duran to quit in that 2nd fight.

But we have to look at everything.

Duran was (as usual) extremely overweight and out of shape 2 weeks after their first fight (the results of eating like a pig and partying in New York). Leonard heard the news about Duran's shape and immediately wanted to fight Duran (he said so himself in the documentary). He did NOT want to give Duran 6 or more months in between fights to get himself into a shape similar to their first fight. IN FACT, Leonard wanted to fight Duran earlier than the November 25 date, but Duran and his people refused. Remember, the first fight was in June 8th.

Once 'No Mas' was in the books, Duran actually tried to get an immediate 3rd rematch versus Leonard, but Leonard ignored or flat out refused to fight Duran until 9 MORE YEARS had gone by.

Let's not forget. Duran (5'7" with a 66" reach) was the older, smaller fighter versus Leonard (5'10" with a 74" reach). Duran was past his best weight class (Lightweight) and was fighting in a weight class against perhaps a top 3 all-time great Welterweight (in Leonard). Remember, at Welterweight, Leonard had stopped Benitez and would later stop Hearns (both by true TKO).

Who would have won if it was the version of each fight you mentioned?

I still say that the June 20th version of Duran would win by close decision. Duran had very real hate and animosity towards Leonard (because he saw Leonard as a wasteful individual who didn't appreciate the money and fame he had gained, and hated Leonard's arrogance). And what type of fight would Leonard have tried to use? Outside boxing? While it's true that Duran became frustrated by outside boxers, if he was in shape - it wouldn't matter. He knew how to cut the ring, had incredibly slick defense in the pocket (as quoted by Leonard himself), and still was a dangerous puncher at Welterweight. The problem (as always) was the question about his conditioning.

Duran NEVER again regained the condition that he showed in that first Leonard fight and his Lightweight career - even in his great fights versus Moore, Hagler, and Barkley.

Great question. I've discussed this at length many times. It's a very tough call. I place Leonard second overall at 147. But I'm still not sure he beats the Duran who defeated him on June 20, 1980. Forget the November version who surrendered. There are FAR too many reasons why that whole thing is bull$hit.

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I take nothing from Leonard for doing his homework. But if anyone really believes that Leonard made Duran quit, they're reading FAR too much into Ray's press. True, Duran did quit and his legacy took a huge hit for it. Some credit has to go to Leonard. But the bigger culprit was Duran himself. Any part of Ray that forced Duran to quit was more a result of the way Duran viewed Ray. It had nothing to do with any fear of Leonard or even fear of losing.

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Again, Duran deserves no alibi but Ray receives FAR too much credit for the outcome. Marvin Hagler made the same mistake against Leonard. Of course, Marvin didn't quit. But he might as well had. If you carefully view EVERY major fighter before the Leonard fight, you will see that Marvin was not on his game. No fault of Ray's.

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It's called Obsession. Both Marvin and Duran were obsessed with Leonard. It's almost like that guy in school. All the girls like him. The teachers love him. He can do no wrong. He's the teacher's pet and (something every child should learn), sometimes you can't change the way the mass of people feel about him. Marvin and Duran never dealt with Ray's status well. They should have concentrated more on being their best. Aside from their dealings with Ray, both have always done that.

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But that's a lesson some learn in life. I see the same with Tom Brady's many detractors. Some STILL refuse to give the man an ounce of credit. They make TOTAL fools of themselves rather than just give him his due credit. THREE years ago, Donavan McNabb refused to list Brady in the Top 10 of TODAY's quarterbacks. He made a TotalAss of himself. He sounded like a jilted ex-girlfriend. Fortunately, Donavan was smart enough to clean that up after Brady won his 5th ring.

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Sure that has nothing to do with boxing. But it has everything to do with the obsession both Marvin and Duran felt towards Ray. It's ok if you're not making as much money as he made. Just do YOU. They learned this lesson AFTER their dealings with Ray.

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I'd give Duran the slight edge in such a fight. But ONLY if he could somehow concentrate on the matter at hand and not how badly he wants to grind Sugar Ray to powder.

Both leonard and duran were legends

No

Ask abc man

At first, I thought it was amusing but I've grown bored with all the "What if..." questions and some of the absurd match-up speculations. Sorry. No comment.

leonard takes a close unanimous decision. he doesn't fall into the trap he did in montreal.

Duran. The Duran from the Brawl would beat anyone from 147 to 160. He was just a beast in that fight.

If Leonard fought the same way he did in the first fight he would lose again

I agree that it was very close to a draw...but with all the advantages Leonard had going into the fight, he accepted that he lost the tough fight. He was forced into the wrong fight...so it's considered a lost to him.

But second fight, he needed Duran to not be 100% n set up the fight asap. Duran had to drain alot of weight fast....cuz he eats and drinks merry after fights.