Question about Rape and Consent in books?

Question

I've recently been rereading a very good [fiction] book called "Wild Swan". In one of the earlier chapters, the main character (a female named Alex) loses her virginity to the man she's crushed on for most of her early life.

The way the character continued after the fact (never treating it as such), I never really gave it a second thought. However, rereading the chapter, I picked up on the fact that: he was drunk and she technically never said yes.

The book takes place in the 1800's in both England and later America; I'm not too familiar with social customs during that period but it just seemed off to me. Does that count as rape?

Voelven · Answer

Assuming they're both adults:

If he was too drunk to say no, then it might have been rape (her raping him).
If she did not want it to happen, then it would be rape.

Otherwise not. The whole part about having to say "yes" every time seems to be new and somewhat limited to the U.S. as far as I can see. I'm in Europe, I've never said "yes", but we were taught in sex ed. that a no means no, regardless of how or when it's given.

Marli · Answer

This happened in the 1800s.  A man could rape his wife without harm then.  Unless the man's body showed scratches and bruises in court, showing that the woman fought him hard, it was assumed she really wanted to have sex with him, and her "no" was just playing coy. Of course the bruises were gone by the time the case was heard in court. "No" meant "no" in law starting in the 1980s.  I remember how controversial it was, and how we young women cheered.  The police and the courts always give the victim a hard time and tried to shame her so she would not press charges.  The police told us schoolgirls don't wear anything sexy, submit quietly for our own safety and it was useless to complain because the judges won't try rapes.  Too messy, embarassing and inconclusive. It took a lot of gutsy brave women to defy those attitudes and prosecute their assailants in open court and for others to lobby and get the public lobbying for expression of consent laws.

Mike · Answer

Are you asking if she raped him, since he was drunk?

I don't recall there ever being a law that requires a verbal yes from either partner. I don't recall any books or movies that suggest a verbal yes was required.

It sounds like the author did not intend for it to be rape. Without reading the sex scene, its hard to tell, but its doubtful.

GTB · Answer

Being drunk or not on his part is of no real issue whatsoever.  Were he so drunk as to not be in control of his faculties, he would be unable to sexually perform and would be insufficiently erect to penetrate her.  She needs to specifically make all physical attempts stop him and vocally tell him to stop; she need not specifically tell him to enter her to establish consent.

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Question about Rape and Consent in books?

4 Answers