Brian Griffin

but not really in your face about it.

At the same time, it seems the Freemasons have a reputation for being tied to occult type things. Anyone know much about 'em?

Just for being born? Most seem to think we do. What did I do to deserve eternal torture? Or better yet, what did you do to deserve it?

And for the sake of being on the same page, it might help if you define what it means to "deserve" something. To me, the punishment should fit the crime, and I honestly can't thing of any finite crime that would be justly punishable by infinite punishment in the form of torture.

Mind you, my lack of belief in a hell has nothing to do with whether I think it should be so. But I do find it disturbing that so many people think we all deserve infinite torture -- this belief would surely influence how you view humanity in general, namely with contempt.

So why do Christians say "it takes more faith to be an atheist" like that's a bad thing?

I mean, I disagree that atheism requires faith (just the opposite, really) BUT if someone puts A LOT of stock in having faith, why would they attempt to insult your position by asserting that you have more faith than them?

I'm an atheist, and I believe (for all intents and purposes) in all sorts of things.

...the gap that you fill your god with?

What I mean is that humans used to attribute volcanoes, hurricanes/tornadoes, lightning, earthquakes, etc. to a god or gods. They didn't know any better. Now we do know better -- these things can be explained entirely in natural terms. I realize evolution is debatable (at least to some people..and I definitely think there will continue to be revisions) but the evidence is piling up, and MOST scientists (experts on the matter) agree that macro evolution has occurred and is occurring. This, once again, is further closing our gap in knowledge, and shows that what we didn't understand before can now be understood through perfectly natural terms.

We still don't know how life began in the first place but what would lead you to think we won't..just as we came to understand the true source of earthquakes?

When you see each other providing the exact same arguments to support your beliefs while disregarding the others'?

Do you ever catch a glimpse of what we atheists see all the while? Namely that such arguments are baseless and just plain nonsense? Do you at least see why atheists are atheists with regard to the religion/god you DON'T believe in (c'mon at least give me that one!)???

Mind you, I'm not asking about the differences between modern Muslims and modern Christians in general. And I'm not asking about the differences between Jesus and Muhammad. I'm asking about the differences, according to both the Bible and Koran, between the Father figure gods, Allah and Yahweh.

I've about had my fill of R/S. It's getting very repetitive -- same questions, same answers, same unwillingness on both sides to agree on anything at all. Plus it's really not much of a forum. I want to be able to have more of a conversation. The R/S platform isn't very accommodating to genuine debate (and I dare say, the theist representation here, as well as the atheist representation are not especially good examples. I know there are intelligent Christians out there -- I've met several in my life....and there are too many 13 year old atheists that constantly make me cringe.) I

used to be part of a couple really good religion debate fgroups on Myspace years ago and I miss it... but I don't even have an account anymore and doubt those forums are very active these days.

So someone point me in a good direction here, please. Thanks.

I'm not trolling. This is a perfectly valid question -- one that I've yet to get a valid or coherent answer to. I'll explain what I mean a bit more -- If an aborted fetus/baby goes to Heaven, then why would you oppose keeping this legal? Granted, if you see abortion as murder, you wouldn't want to get one for yourself, so as not to be a murderer, but the concern expressed by Christian "pro-lifers" is never for the person getting the abortion but for the baby. So that's my question. Why are you so concerned about the aborted baby? Is life on Earth somehow better than life in Heaven? Mind you, aborting a baby would ensure that it could not potentially be "lead astray" by Satan and therefor end up in Hell.

Please explain why it's so important to you to keep babies from going to Heaven, and why you want to make laws which force them to live on Earth and possibly end up in Hell.

would he CHANGE his expectations of us? Why would he no longer expect us to sacrifice helpless innocent little animals and such? That sure seems like a change to me/

if I told you he was the most loving person I've ever known? Mind you the punishment I speak of is that of setting his children on fire. Keep in mind that he demands that his children worship him. Well 3 of them refused to do so, and the rest you know. Yet some people claim that it is absurd for me to claim that this guy (whose name I'll keep a secret) is somehow not incredibly loving and kind. Did I mention that his scum bag children refused to worship him?! I mean what other choice does he have?

Isn't it wrong to stop someone from doing something like shooting a bunch of 6 year olds to death because that would interfere with free will? I mean isn't that the reason the "almighty God" didn't stop the one in Connecticut? Obviously he could have since he certainly exists and is all powerful. And obviously he would want to prevent something like that happening since he is all good and loves children. But he didn't. So why should anyone else?

By the way, I WOULD stop something like that from happening by any means necessary if it was in my power... but maybe I just have a higher sense of morality than God.

I was thinking -- we appear to be on the verge of creating beings which are superior to us in every way. I'm talking about artificial intelligence. Computers are already far superior to us in terms of computation, and complex algorithms allow current technology to display a sense of autonomy. The only thing that's really currently lacking is self-consciousness but this appears to be merely a matter of time (perhaps withing the next 20 years). Once this happens, I think it will be safe to say that we have created a new form of life which is superior to us -- They would be physically stronger (think of an army tank with a mind of its own), and far more advanced in intelligence. Self consciousness would likely lead to creativity and imagination -- they might actually be superior to us as artists as well!

Granted, many of you may not believe that any of this is possible. I think it's more than possible but that is technically beside the point here. The point of the question is this -- IF this happens, are we the god(s) of this new form of life? If so, how does this notion fit with the assumption that a creator of us MUST be superior to us? Is it possible that we, like the hypothetical robots I've described, could be superior to our creator in at least some ways?

I'm not referring to beliefs concerning morality. For example, the belief that it's not okay to torture innocent people (obviously believing otherwise would seem rather immoral). I'm referring to the belief that an event occurred or did not occur. How can lack of belief in a particular occurrence or occurrences, such as the significant points of Jesus' death/resurrection, equate to immorality?I don't understand this concept. If someone could explain it to me, I'd be much obliged.

Isn't that weird? I mean you don't see humans posting in the pets category am I right? That category is obviously just for dogs and cats...maybe turtles. You get the point. And you wouldn't expect a person to ask a question in the plants category either, right? Right. Because that section is for plants! This is simple stuff, people!

if he/she was an "atheist for jesus"?

That's a real thing (google it), and something I could potentially get on board with. So if someone has an appreciation for the basic teachings and attitude of Jesus but doesn't believe he was divine, how would this sit with you? Would you tolerate his/her interpretations of the bible (such as noting that Jesus would not condone his followers to be involved in politics as he made crystal clear in his sermon on the mount) or would you instead disregard his/her opinion on the basis of his/her atheism?

Just curious... He certainly seems to speak from a much different philosophy than Jesus did, and yet many "Christians" seem to put more emphasis on what he had to say than what Jesus did. Should we label those who tend to care more about what Paul as "Paulians"?

If so, why would you blatantly disregard God's will on this matter? It specifically says in the Bible that pork is an abomination just like homosexuality. Yet the vast majority of Christians I know eat pork without a second thought. What gives?

How can you then take issue with abortion? How is it in any way wrong to give someone a direct one way ticket to paradise?

For those who say "God forbids it, and you'll go to hell if you do it (etc.)" I have further questions: 1. Wouldn't sacrificing your own desires (to avoid damnation) actually be heroic? 2. Couldn't you have an abortion and then simply repent?

I have two kids. The oldest one ate an apple in the fridge that I specifically told him not to eat! What a jerk. So I punished him severely. But, naturally, I also punished my other son (who had nothing to do with it) just as severely. But then somebody told me that I was wrong for doing that! I was like "What?! Are you telling me that God's way is wrong?!" And then I explained to him that this is just how it works. I mean c'mon read the Bible! Clearly, the reason that babies are born with deformities and children starve to death and all sorts of terrible things happen to people is because Adam ate some fruit that he was told not to. We're all God's children so all I did was simply handle the situation the way God showed me. Yes, I whipped my youngest son very badly and wouldn't allow him to have supper but he DESERVED IT because of what his older brother did. And yet some folks want to tell me that I'm a bad parent. The nerve!