Government funded research?

For this question let's work with two assumptions:

1. Government funded research provides a public good creating venues for creation and expansion of private industry (i.e. GPS, Internet, Nuclear fission, basic genetics etc.)

2. Global warming research is no longer needed (period).

Where should federal tax dollars for research be aimed in the current status of the country? Should the US remain in status and all federal tax dollars removed from research?

Would the private sector take over and accomplish the basic research that is foundational to cutting edge technological advances?

Should we anticipate potential changes in our world and understand those or address them as they arise?

2012-09-18T09:46:25Z

Jim - the point is that all cutting edge genetic research is founded on a basis of basic understanding that was accomplished (almost entirely) through government funded research. The human genome was broken under government funding, the double helix was elucidated under government funding. Can you imagine a private business undertaking such basic research when immediate financial gains are uncertain if even considered?

Peter J, you want to guess how much government funded research went into what is the foundation of current cell phone technology? This is much like the "we built it" mentality while using government funded and built infrastructure that brings customers to a business.

2012-09-18T14:17:42Z

It's funny that a topic of technological advances fueled by government funded research sparks so many unconnected cries about "regulation." You guys are just slightly one note, eh?

David2012-09-18T09:37:22Z

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Given your two assumptions, the simple answer would be to pull all research funds that are currently going into climate science and put it into other research projects.

I don't think removing 'all federal tax dollars from research' would make any sense. Government has its place in many roles. For one, there are a lot of useful research endeavors that can't easily turn into a profit, but which can help many people. I can't imagine any private company undertaking such a project.

Even for those that can turn profits like GPS or internet, cutting off government-funded research completely might create a *small* boost in private sector R&D, but to assume private companies would totally 'take over' is to assume that the only barrier to more private R&D right now is direct competition with government. But such an assumption implies:

--Everything that could be researched in the world is already being researched
--There cannot be two groups independently researching the same thing at the same time
--There are not in fact dozens of other factors influencing how much capital a given business puts into R&D (limited budget, desire to invest in other areas, arbitrary will of the management boards, etc)

All three of which would be pretty silly arguments to make.

And without question we should make an effort to anticipate potential changes. The nature of some problems means they must be attempted to be foreseen and prevented ahead of time, because fixing them after the fact shows to be far more difficult and expensive than preventing them. Anyone who agrees that it's a good idea to stay awake while driving should understand that.

Jeff Engr2012-09-18T12:22:31Z

Space exploration. The space project created many technologies now used everyday by common people the worl over. It is argued that the Economic Dominance of the USin the 1970's - 1980's was in large part due to reserach that came directly out of the space program.

If we put significant funds into this including the 100 year spaceship concept then it would surprise almost anyone how beneficial the technical developments could be.

By the way new theory shows that a Warp Drive might actual be possible with energy requirements within our current abilities to produce!!!

Imagine if we were able to start actively mining the asteroid belt. Total wealth of or the world would be dramatically increased. The first nation taht is capable of doing this will become the next dominant economic power on Earth. If a second third and fourth nation are not able to quickly follow suit, then that first nation would rapid dominate the globe in many more ways than mere economics.

This is the way that human history has worked since the begginning of time. Here are some small examples to consider.
Greek Civilization - Powerful navy expanded thorughout the mediiteranean and elements of greek culture spread at that time still dominate the western world.

British Empire - Powerful navy - became the economic leader of theworld at the time. English today is the most widely spoken language in the world. Several nations which due to multiple native tongues use english as their formal national language due in large part to this fact. (Phillipines and India for example)

There are many other examples. China and the Middle kingdom - perio of growth and prosperity Large trading fleets etc. Alexander the Great and the development of the phalanx. Roman empire and the first professional military of the period.

Naitons with technical leadership frame the world and the human experience. Naitons that fail to lead become footnotes in history.

Brussell2012-09-18T16:22:05Z

The NSA and other government defense budgets continue to fund many technology-based startup companies today, a practice that has been in place for decades.
Much science has been influenced by the government push. Look how many products were developed by NASA just to beat the Russians to the moon. Also, both fission and fusion were developed for military application. Many biological weapons have yielded discoveries in the structure and prevention of disease and bacterae; this is still a very controversial subject, as many people believe HIV was a mutated result of 2 biological precursors developed by the US DOD. For many years, until AIDS became very common, there were 2 precursor items in the US bio weapons catalog; both carried the description "...result of attempts to create a virus to which no known human immunity exists." and when you look at their molecular structure, they each happen to represent about half of the HIV virus structure. Certain government institutions have had a long history of infecting its own citizens with various diseases, sicknesses and viruses. This is actually fact, you can look up several cases that the CIA has actually admitted to in recent years, so this isn't just a conspiracy thing. Many believe that the government, likely the CIA, was used to secretly give certain groups of people these virus precursors during immunizations in order to see how they behave in the body. The running theory is that these two precursor virus structures are harmless on their own because they lacked the ability to fully replicate and mutate within the body, but that during the 1960s and 1970s, they were injected into homosexual men in the notorious Castro District of San Francisco, California, which was established (much to the government's chagrin and embarrassment) after homosexual service men returned from WWII and settled together in the same area in order to have a political voice and support. (This sort of discriminatory testing has happened before in black neighborhoods too, once during the 1930s with syphilis; this is a widely known factual event admitted by the government). So the theory is that these precursors, which were unrelated and seen as relatively harmless at the time, were given to men, and that eventually two men came together, each with one of the precursors, and the conditions were just right for the two halves to come together and then mutate over time into HIV and then AIDS. Of course, during the early 1990s the two precursors just happened to vanish from the bio weapons catalogue but I copies persist.

I don't think the government push is necessarily a requirement but it surely doesn't hurt. The thing is that private institutions have so many hurdles to jump through, because of government. But they are more efficient as a result. Whereas government has less hurdles but is much less efficient, at least unless some massive goal, like beating the Russians, is present. Therefore, if there were some way to combine the efficiency of private industry together with the reach and motivation behind government, discovery would be essentially limitless.

And response to 2:
I would disagree, you may think so because you hear so much about it. But actually it is quite misunderstood still, and there is a massive amount of data we need to gather in order to truly combat it. In general the climatic patterns of the world, although based on simple properties and processes, is extremely varied, rapidly changing and complex. So to understand something that affects the entire earth all at once is going to take more time, effort and money.
That being said, if I had to choose between putting money into studying global warming or taking measures against it, I would go for the latter. People dont realize how quickly things are going to change. We are so unwilling to change and to be honest, I don't think we have much longer here as an advanced society. I give society another 400-500 years tops before we overreach carrying capacity and massive collapse ensues. Then, within probably a thousand years, the ice age will resume, and I don't feel as if human beings are still hardy enough to adapt to such a rapid environmental change, which we accelerated. Therefore, I say start pouring the money into getting us off this planet, or we will surely meet extinction sooner or later. The problem is it will require a massive expenditure and whatever society pays for it will launch it and never ever see it again, so such a project will be the most expensive gift in history, but it will ultimately be the only thing to keep us alive as a species and break the Earth's historical model of extinction events.

JimZ2012-09-18T09:23:51Z

There are certain things that need government support such as Mars exploration. There is military technology involved and not appropriate for private enterprise. For example, I wouldn't want Tehran to have that ability. Still, much of that technology is private and it relies on private companies building the parts with contracts from the federal government. The same thing can be said of GPS and nuclear energy.

I don't see why genetics needs to have much government funding. Too often government funding comes with restrictions. Just look at Government Motors. They are trying to get out from under the thumb of the government so they can hire people that will make them competitive but Obama won't let them.

With AGW, government funding feeds the alarmist industry. Those studies that conclude something alarming are favored and eventually you have a survival of the shrillest. I don't have any problem with the government funding some science but I don't like those who try to use science for their own political agenda. Trying to fund those studies that exaggerate a threat so it can be used for a petty political agenda isn't a proper use of government funds.

Note:
Can I imagine private industry undertaking this research? You have to be kidding me. Aren't you aware of the trillions spent on health care? Where the government can help, I don't have a problem. Too often they want to have strings tied. Those who pretended that fetal stem cells were the end all are a good example of how politics gets in the way of actual science.

Here is a small example of some other interests presumably some private
The Human Genome Project originally aimed to map the nucleotides contained in a human haploid reference genome (more than three billion). Several groups have announced efforts to extend this to diploid human genomes including the International HapMap Project, Applied Biosystems, Perlegen, Illumina, J. Craig Venter Institute, Personal Genome Project, and Roche-454.

Ottawa Mike2012-09-18T10:55:50Z

If I was an American, I would want NASA to be converted back to its original purpose and properly funded for space exploration. And yes, that would include lots of research.

Edit: After reading Peter J's answer, I need to clarify that I believe the private sector has a part to play in space research and development. Maybe some partnerships should be drawn up.

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