An HONEST Christian/Atheist debate?

My beliefs stem from personal experiences, observation of my environment, and personal moral convictions and I try to view the world from a very "clean slate" non-bias perspective. That's the only way I really feel I will ever come to know what's true, scientifically, philosophically, and spiritually. I was raised in a very conservative Christian household for about 20 years of my life. I learned an entire life-full of arguements that not only stove to discredit scientific theories but also other walks of faith without really knowing what it all composed of. The family and the community would make you feel strong in wisdom and faith but the more profound questions I always had, were constantly ignored at best or criticized by those who were close to me. I was heavily discouraged from studying any way of thinking that seemed to conflict with the scriptures. After I joined the navy, I had an opportunity to learn about the world from a different perspective; my own.

Even today, I still don't know everything there is about existence but I feel like I have a much stronger basis for my own beliefs and convictions. Alot of the questions that I've carried for so long and even moral issues that plagued me through indoctrination have been replaced by personal experiences and research.

I believe that the Bible has alot of wisdom and I also beleive that Jesus was a magnificent man who helped to ease people spiritually and mentally in his time against the political tyranny of the Roman empire and the religious tyranny of the Jewish temples had developed into. There's no question on either side that Jesus was a real historical figure but it's the mysteries that surround his life that continue to fuel heated debates. Did he or didn't he perform miracles? Was he or was he not the son of God and what does that actually entail about the meaning of God? Was he or was he not resurrected? He skips from 12 to 30 years old in the New Testament and some wonder "Did he travel to India and other places in that time?" These are questions that may never be answered but people will continue to base their beliefs on one either faith or experience.

I honestly felt like I had been deprived my entire life of personal experience. I was only allowed to think with in certain parameters as a child and teenager. Any questions that were unanswerable were viewed as worldly deception. I lived a very mentally frustrating life because much of the philosophy conflicted with " NOT the worldly view that was presented by other people, but my own thoughts regarding morality, human consciousness, and basis for ideologies.

One of the questions I used to ask my mother was " What happens to people after they die, who are never exposed to the Word of God?" and she would just say God has a plan for them too. I never knew what this plan was so it never answered my question. When I was about 18, I asked for one last time and she got frustrated and shouted " I don't know what happens to them.!!! It says that there's evidence of God all around us.!!! They should know from their surrounding that God exists.!!!" That's when I developed a "clean-slate" perspective. I asked myself how would I have viewed the world around me if I was never indoctrinated into a belief. When I viewed the world and the universe through my own eyes, I recognized a dualistic attribute to nature and the universe in every realm of existence and that became my personal idea about existence. A few years later, I discovered that my personal idea already existed as a recognized philosophy called Doaism. Since I've decided to open my mind to my surrounding, I have only developed suspicion about religion in general. I also feel that just about all fields of study overlap in areas where they conflict with scriptural philosophy from quantum physics to anthropology. I only allow myself to learn from a non-bias perspective and my research and studies are not intended to prove or disprove any beliefs. If my findings lead me to atheistic, agnostic, or secular explanations that's fine and if they lead me to Biblical claims, that's fine also. But what I discover and what I experience will always be what is true and what exists. And there will be NO written documentation that could convince me otherwise.

Honestly, I'm an atheist and I think Jesus sounds like an awesome guy. Somebody I wouldn't mind being friends with (if he weren't all against atheists, I mean). I just don't believe he was the son of God, because I believe there is no God.

I also agree that all faiths have a right in this world. Especially if those faiths promote tolerance and understanding and love (like most do). But I don't think they have a right to pry into my life and beliefs and then try their hardest to change me.

Personally, I don't believe I need to be prayed for, as I truly am a very happy person; I actually prefer the idea that life isn't a test...and I have no need nor want for "eternal life". I also don't like the idea of so many good people possibly going to hell for something trivial. I do appreciate the sentiment, however.

Let me start off by saying that it's nice to see someone trying to reconcile two points of view instead of yelling at those that disagree.

I think that what's happening is that these "bible-thumpers" and "hardcore-atheists" are just afraid of being wrong. When you think about it, having the "wrong" religion could lead to a terrible fate according to some religious preachings. For instance, Christianity teaches that faith is vital for entrance to heaven. If I were an Atheis, I'd want to make sure that I would never believe anything related to Christianity, since doing so would involve believing in one's ultimate doom. A Christian wouldn't want to be wrong because he/she would have wasted one's life worshipping the equivalent of an imaginary friend.

The best thing that Christians and Atheists could do would be stop worrying about who's right or wrong. Think about it, have you ever seen someone go on a rant about how Atheists are evil and convert an Atheist to Christianity or vice-versa? Of course not. Christianity has helped people and it has hurt others, but what good could possibly come out of verbal abuse disguised as debate?

As an atheist I realise this debate is harder on Christians than it is to me. I argue about something that isn't real to me anyway, A Christian will be offended much easier, because to the Christian, Jesus and God are very real.

But I truly don't even care who is right in this debate. I'm a huge supporter of Montesquieu. As long as the Trias Politica is followed, it's all fine by me. Religion should not have any place in our laws, and I would feel the same about that if I were to believe a God was real.

And yes, I see your point. I agree that Jesus was a good guy. It just saddens me how many time I, as an atheist, have to remind a Christian of Jesus' messages of Love.

Any Christian who believes that God is some kind of fluffy love monster who doesn't care if anyone doesn't believe has clearly never read the Bible even once. He has personally destroyed people who ticked Him off, whole cities, and even all of civilization from time to time. And since God is eternal and unchanging, how could He be any different now?

In other words, if Christians don't seem like the most tolerant people in the world, it is because God says that there are some things that should not be tolerated, and shows us by copious example! Those who ignore such teachings and the Bible itself are false Christians who are WORSE than atheists.

Bocasbeachbum and others: if you are having trouble finding the right passage in the Bible, let me direct you to my favourite:

(Luke 14:26) Jesus said, "If any man come to me and hate not his father, his mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

The christians who bang on atheists, as many have said, do not live up to their name. Christian means to be christ-like, and even in the fantasy they call the bible I have never read where Jesus hated the way many "christians" on this forum do. God hated and killed and had bears tear kids apart and on and on, but Jesus was to be a transition between the god of the old testament and the god of the new testament. I have a problem with there being 2 different gods, but that is another story. The bible used by the hate mongers is the one written years, and even hundreds of years after Jesus died and is used only by the church to control people and gain power and money. The gnostic bible, purportedly written by doubting Thomas and Mary Magdalena, talks about how god is within you and to love one another. That is a short synopsis of a hundred thousand words. But the church cannot use that to control people so they did their best to destroy it. Also, they bible is attributed to having been written by many people who were illiterate. Farmers, military, fishermen. Thomas was a scribe and literate and Mary came froma wealthy family, was not a prostitute, and may well have been able to read or write.

I wish there was less animosity between Christians and atheists. I had been quite willing to 'live and let live' until a few years ago, when it seemed that the U.S. was (metaphorically) going to hell in a hand-basket due to the (metaphorical) unholy union of conservative Christians and the Republican party. I've become a little more tolerant just since the last elections, since it seems that many Christians finally realized they were being used. But I still feel a strong need to be vigilant, because the constitutional freedoms we nearly lost are still in danger. If Christians would simply put more emphasis on 'love thy neighbor' and 'judge not, lest ye be judged', and stop trying to corrupt the constitution and public science curricula, then I would get along fine with them.

i don't believe in god but i don't have a problem with anyone who has a belief system that is different to me as long as they don't flaunt it around. no-one has the right to condemn anyone else on the basis of morals.

i hate morals. morals are wrong. i think that living by logic is a far better way to live. just because a christian thinks he is right does not give them a basis for preaching that his faith is the only true faith. same goes for any religion. respect of others' beliefs is something that i'm sure jesus would have supported.

intolerance for other peoples' personal choices seems to be the cause for most of the conflicts throughout history. i used to think that without religion the world would be a better place but i realise now that it's not just religion - it's just a few bigoted members who give religion a bad name.

there are good points in almost every religious order and i just wish that everyone, whether atheist or religious, would treat their neighbour as they would like to be treated themselves.

I have been on Yahoo! Answers for a while, answering tons of questions of Christians asking about atheists. As an atheist, I really don't see your point of view because it deals with Christians. I have been in debates with other Christians at times about God and how much of him and his bible don't make any sense. Since you "guess" you are atheist, I doubt you have done that. But when atheists do that, and then the Christians tell them they will pray for them, it is the most annoying thing ever. Christians usually say they will pray for them, rather than that atheists will be smitten by God. They usually just tell us that we will burn in hell, and will pray for us so god can help save our souls. If they don't then they aren't true Christians. Either way, it is really pointless and meaningless to us atheists. We have been convinced that there is no god and there is no convincing us otherwise. If for example, one day I was walking in the middle of the street and all of a sudden God came down and spoke to me, saying that he's real and whatever, I might question my own sanity, rather than believe. And so, to Atheists, it really doesn't matter what Christians tell us is going to happen to us, just like to Christians, it really doesn't matter what Muslims tell them will happen in the after life.

About Jesus. He sounds like a really nice guy. I've never bashed Jesus. I'm sure he was real. I'm sure he taught many great principles of life. But there have been other great people in the world, who have suffered just like Jesus, and who have helped the world just like Jesus. Therefore, he seems entirely insignifacant to me.

I have plenty of tolerance for an atheist. Maybe this is because I once was one, but I also believe that if a person was never an atheist and allowed to research and find God and Jesus on their own then it is difficult to become a true believer and follower of Christ. I see your point of view and am reminded that in the teaching that I have read and studied, it is not my job to judge. As long as athiest can have a logical educated discussion on the topic, I love to debate and discuss our vast differences.

It is when the discussion becomes combative that I decide enough is enough, and while you ask that this discussion be an educated debate, I will almost bet that the ignorant on BOTH SIDES will chime in and start reigning the discussion with nonlogic.

Good question thanks..............

I was raised as a Catholic and started to question my faith at about the age of 8. Too many unanswered questions. I also have extremely live-by-the-book Catholics in my family who are also hypocritical, mean, selfish, greedy people. At a young age I constantly questioned why we kept going to church and praying only to see my grandparents and aunts and uncles treat each other like crap. Now....entering adulthood my ideas have somewhat matched what you are explaining here....I believe I am a Spiritualist - Agnostic. (Only way I can put it).....I believe Jesus was wise beyond his years, was a hands-on-healer, and preached the golden rule. He was truly awesome and definately someone to put faith into when life gets you down. No one should be killing anyone for any reason. No justification for it-not religious or other. All religions which aim to better humanity and teach people the golden rule are doing something worth while. I agree with you.