CCan we all pretend for a moment that the Mormon church really was founded on a hoax?

I was an anti-Mormon campaigner (Evangelical Christian) for five years. I was area director of an organisation here in the UK called Reachout Trust which worked against the cults.

I used to believe that the LDS church was founded on a hoax. That Joseph Smith invented the whole thing in order to get money, or power, or adulation, or all three.

I am now LDS, and I know that the church is true, and Joseph Smith really did see Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, and really did translate the Book of Mormon.

Had it been a hoax, I would think the second tarring and feathering, or the third murder, or being burned out of their homes, or being imprisoned for the umpteenth time, or seeing that he was going to be killed, would have been enough to make him retract what he'd said and scurry off to the hills to start a new life. The fact is he could not retract it or escape, because he truly was called of God.

Joseph Smith never made money - the church was in debt for almost its first hundred years. And he never had any real power (save the priesthood) . His attempts at political office got nowhere. Neither did he get adulation. He was loved among his people, but they worshipped Jesus Christ, as he told them to, and called him "Brother Joseph". Today the LDS prophet has a more respectful title. Why would he spin such a hoax when it resulted in so much personal misery for him, and for his beloved family and friends?

I am proud and happy to belong to this church. Thank you for reminding me of how wonderful it is. "By their fruits ye shall know them."

Yes the church has done some great things, and there are some great people who are Mormon. However, the fact that it has lasted a mere 177 years isn't proof of anything. It is still a very new church compared to others. Does that mean they are more true? No. Also the fact that Joseph Smith was murdered for the religion and never denounced it doesn't mean anything either. David Koresh never denounced his beliefs before he died either. There are a lot of people in other religions that claim miraculous occurances that prove their religion is true. Mormon don't have a monopoly on feeling the spirit. Yes the church deserves respect for many reasons. But respecting it doesn't mean believing it.

It is not necessary to _pretend_ that it is a hoax. Look at the other evidence that you didn't list here:

-James MacPherson in Scotland found plates in a hill and "translated them" fully a century before Joseph Smith did.

-There is a book written about the history of American literature. Since it was written before 1830, the Mormon elders say that it is not "anti-Mormon". In this book, it lists off some 35 or so people who did the same thing as Joseph Smith (found plates in a hill and translate them).

-The evidence about DNA and anthropology points out the errors in the Mormon teachings.

-The book of Hebrews refutes the notion that this church restored the New Testament priesthood.

The most important and stunning thing the Church has done is to bring people to Christ. I love the Savior, and am still working on maintaining a personal relationship with him that I established when I was 11 and baptized in the Church. If the only thing Joseph Smith did in his life is to bring me to Christ, then I'll stand and clap. Imagine doing that to millions.

Like Isaiah said: Every knee shall bow and every tounge confess that Jesus is the Christ!

Like Alma said: Every whit pointing to that sacrifice!

When you discover that you can say just about any damned thing that pops into your head and have hundreds of people immediately believe it, you start believing it too. You've brought nothing new to the table except that the beliefs of the church seemed to get them in trouble, usually for moral reasons: adultery, fraud, cheating, etc,.

Cowdery wasn't much a a man to begin with. What I've read about him is that he was a simple-minded person married to a witch of a woman, who never had an original thought in his entire life. No one outside Smith's circle of family and friends ever "saw" the BoM except thru the 'power of god' while Smith described it as it remained covered. There is no independant disinterested party. However, there were plenty of 'witnesses' who have signed affidavits stating Smith and his family were religious weirdos.

We don't need to pretend this was a hoax, it was *definitely* a hoax, and Smith perpetuated it with his persona, influence, and hapless dingleberries like Cowdery.

As for the growth, that also is a fraud and hoax perpetuated by the church. Any increase is based on children's baptisms within members families, and the erroneous assumption people live 101 years, and no one ever stops going to church. Let's quit pretending this is real, okay?

I read some of the worst criticisms of the Mormon church by ignoramuses

As for the pedophiliac story of young women being married to older men...

That's in the FLDS

As for the racist comments...

Mormons aren't racist at all

in fact in the near future there will be more latinos from Argentina to the US who speak spanish in the church than English speaking mormons.

As for the one saying stealing native american land resources?

Can you back up that slur? I guess not

As for Mormons missionaries getting rich on their mission?

They pay their own way....and they don't tract only one or two groups there are commisioned to teach the world.

Most of the criticisms of the Mormon church in yahoo R&S answers are done by people who don't know Mormons or their doctrines and are spoon fed by deceiveing pastors.

Some observations about answers to this question:

>>Mormonism is another example of a guy looking for power and cash. Joseph Smith was a snake-oil salesman.<<

Pity, he never got rich, in fact, he died in penury, and the funny thing? Never ONCE did he ever walk away from it or say "Yeah, my bad, just a big joke" and go about his business.

>>It has also been one of the most racist religious institutions ever.

The only really good things you pointed out were about education and aid money. Do you not think those things could be done by other concerned groups?<<

A. How is it "the most racist"? Plenty of other churches can claim that title, especially the Southern Baptist Convention, which was started so Southern WHITE people wouldn't have to rub shoulders with their former slaves.

B. Yes, those things ae done by other concerned groups. Groups like the Masons.

>>It's a cult. Cults grow. Mind control and family grouping keep 'em together. That, and they're good at giving each other financial perks...<<

A. calling any group a "cult" tells more about you tan about us. This is your definition of "cult":

CULT: n., church down the road that I don't like and don't believe, that I want everyone else to fear and hate like I do.

B. Mind control. I saw much better acts of mind control at pentecostal/evangelical meetings. CLASSIC brain washing techniques. Turning people into Junkies for Jesus, needing to go every day to get their fix. People were so spaced out, it was like being in a drug den.

C. What financial perks? Helping support a missionary? Some of those missionaries go out with not penny one in their pocket adn no one to support them. Most don't get more than $400 a month, and that's for ALL expenses. Including rent.

>>community and the church on trumped-up charges in order to keep the pool of women larger than the number of men to feed their ongoing lust.<<

You have Joseph Smith mixed up with men like Warrren Jeffs. Joseph Smith NEVER NEVER advocated getting as many women as possible and kicking out all young men.

I don't think that Joseph Smith ever consummated most of the marriages he entered into.

"...without ever denouncing the truthfulness of Joseph's claims to have spoken to God and Jesus Christ and of the translation of the plates which became the Book of Mormon.

"- Oliver Cowdrey, [...] never denied having seen and held the plates. "

>>Lack of evidence is not proof.

It's a cult. Cults grow. Mind control and family grouping keep 'em together. That, and they're good at giving each other financial perks... Those missionaries "paying their own way" get help. I've had several Mormon friends. They told me they always went looking for the Jehovah's witnesses so they'd have someone to talk to.

i don't understand that i'm able to upload a lot to what you have already gained yet indexed below are my 2 cents worth besides. a million. April 6, 1830 in the Whitmer homestead in Manchester, manhattan. 2. Joseph Smith with 5 different adult men for the solid/criminal signing of the church in accordance to state regulation at that factor. 3. To convey all women and adult men human beings to Christ, to help the father and the Son to convey to pass the immortality and eternal existence of guy. we don't have something to do with the immortality part of the equation because of the fact Christ took care of that Himself together with his very own resurrection. notwithstanding, we are able to help with the eternal existence section with the aid of convey all adult men unto Christ. 4. The Bible tells of God's dealings together with his covenant human beings in the part of Palestine and the e book of Mormon tells of God's dealings together with his covenant human beings in the Americas. 5. i anticipate you imply practised and that must be throughout the time of the international. There are in far greater than 13 million individuals of the Church international. below a million/2 are probable "energetic" individuals yet confident, it somewhat is a international church. The headquarters are nonetheless in Salt Lake city, UT.

YES it is all SH%Tsorry did not read all of the past comment but would like to say that any religion that says ok for women to be slaves is not for me. The godess is supreme and she would have me defined as an individual, a woman supreme of any male dominance. All church it seems to me is patriacal, the man in front. Nature tells you that MOTHER NATURE will sort you all out. you cannot spend money when it is frozen (frost) ar wet (flood) get over yourself we are talking 1000"s of years of divination not177 or 153 years of men fighting about how great u are educate women and you are gone