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Is the Roman Catholic Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church the true Church?
So many Catholics on here seem convinced that their Church is the True Church, started in 33 AD. My guess is that some of you either do not know of the Eastern Orthodox Church, do not know much about it, or believe something that causes you to believe that it is not the True Church and that, in 1054 it is the Eastern Orthodox that split from Rome, and not Rome that split from the Eastern Orthodox.
My question is, what do you believe about these Churches, and why do you believe it?
If you are Catholic, I would like to ask how you reconcile with the doctrinal changes that have occurred in the Roman Catholic Church over time, despite Papal Infallibility. I'm willing to consider that I don't understand Papal Infallibility.
I ask this in the kindest way I know how, I do not wish to give rise to dissention and anger. I'm just curious what everyone believes.
**For simplicity, I've left Oriental Orthodoxy out, but you may bring it up if you like.**
Clearing up some misconceptions...
The Patriarch of Constantinople is not the Leader of the Eastern Orthodox Church, but the "first among equals". He has no greater authority than any other Patriarch. Most Orthodox would say Christ is their Pope.
Second, if you are going to refer to a Church other than the RCC or the Eastern Orthodox Church, please state which one it is (even if protestantism in general) so that I know what you are talkign about.
Final, if you think that the Eastern Orthodox Church and the RCC are both the first Church, say it explicitly that that I do not risk misunderstanding you. If you can state why you believe that, even better.
Forgive me if I have offended anyone.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by Papacy Beetleman? If you dont mind stating your other reasons, I'd like to hear them too.
Hox makes some interesting points and challenges to the Roman Catholics.
I'll wait to see what the Roman Catholic counter-argument is.
Max Marie,
Your love is truly returned. I have a great deal of respect for you.
I understand that the Eastern Orthodox (EOC) and RCC get along very well today. I have a great deal of affection for all my Roman Catholic friends, despite our differences.
However, The EOC herself does make the claim that Rome has fallen away from Apostolic succession by accepting heretical doctrines. The EOC, therefore, do not consider the RCC to be part of the original Apostolic Catholic Church. They also say the same thing about the Eastern Rite Catholics under the Pope of Rome.
The EOC does state, however, that "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it isn't" But this doesn't refer to the institution of the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, but to the ability of the Holy Spirit to work anywhere and everywhere.
This does not change the love that I have for my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters. I pray that this is not taken in a negative manner by anyone.
Patricia,
Why did Pope Leo rejected the Filioque in 808AD, if he was infallible and the Vicar of Christ? (Pointed out by Hox)
also, why do you interpret the foundation of the Church upon Peter the way you do as opposed to how Hox described it?
I ask, I do not criticize. I know this can be read harshly, but I do not intend for it to be read in such a way. Forgive my imperfect use of language.
I want to thank Patricia for coming out and stating the true Catholic beliefs with boldness. I do not see the Catholic Church as bad for making such decisive claims, either. These sort of assertions are necessary for preserving a faith.
**I'm extending the deadline in hopes of hearing a Catholic argument with some convincing historical perspective and a good list of sources.**
Unfortunately, I cannot get to the link Soni posted.
correction to my above post, i found a way to get to the link.
17 Answers
- 1 decade agoFavorite Answer
The Roman Catholic Church was formed in the year 1054 when The pope committed two heresies. Before this time There Was only the Orthodox Church.
The Roman Catholic Church and their departure from Orthodoxy is most clearly seen by realizing that they are uncanonical and heretical by going against the Third Ecumenical Council by adding to the Nicene (Constantinoplean) Creed. The Roman Catholics recite the Creed as saying that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son, whereas the Creed actually states (as does John 15:26) that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone (this is removed from the Roman Catholic Bible). This addition to the Creed was spoken against by Pope Leo in 808 A.D., who had the Creed, without the addition, inscribed on silver tablets. But the addition was later reintroduced by other popes and accepted as correct practice and defended by them for almost 1000 years.
As to their doctrine of papal infallibility, if the above example does not raise sufficient questions of that doctrine’s validity, then there is the fact that the Sixth Ecumenical Council anathematized one of the popes, Pope Honorius. This council is now and always has been accepted as valid by the Roman Catholics. In addition, their doctrine of papal authority over the whole Church is proved false by one of their own popes, who is also a saint, St. Gregory the Great. He wrote in the sixth century that no bishop (which includes the pope) ought to call himself universal (as the popes now call themselves "Universal Pontiffs") because all bishops are equal in authority (parenthetical statements are the author’s). This was written at a time when the Church in Rome was still Orthodox. The pope cannot be the head of the Church, as the popes term themselves, for Christ is the Head of the Church. Neither can the pope be Christ’s vicar, for that would necessitate that Christ was no longer present in the world, since "vicar" means "substitute" or "representative."
The apostles ordered the Church with each bishop equal in authority, a tradition which the Orthodox Church has kept. Indeed, at the council in Jerusalem described in Acts 15, it was the Apostle James who presided, not St. Peter-clear evidence that the apostles did not interpret the words in Matt. 16:18 as later popes have interpreted them. The Holy Fathers from the beginning have always understood the passage, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church (Matt. 16:18), to mean that Christ would build His Church on Peter’s confession that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God. The present day Roman Catholic interpretation of that verse came much later in Church history. St. Peter in his epistles makes no claim to supremacy, and neither did any of the early popes. The supremacy of the pope, the involvement of the popes in world governments, power struggles, wars, with their own armies, and in plots for or against worldly leaders and peoples are all clearly in opposition to the practice delivered to the Church by the holy apostles, and contrary to the example of humility given to us by Christ.
- 5 years ago
What Catholic church are you talking about? Actually the Church does not teach at ALL that the only way to heaven is through the Catholic Church. Buy a book perhaps? I'd start with the Cathecism of the Catholic Church. And the Catholic Church views the Orthodox church as "having the fullness of Truth" just as does itself. They view the other world religions as having "a piece of the Truth" meaning they have somethings right but not it all.
- 1 decade ago
The Church that Christ founded, The Catholic Church is a living organism, it is the Mystical Body of Christ. As Such the Holy Spirit continues to ask us to look into history, scripture, tradition, Church ecumenical councils, etc. to find deeper meanings in the revelation of God before the death of the last Apostle John when the public revelation was closed.
The Orthodox Church, yes it is a Church because it has Apostolic Succession, has kept many of the truths of the faith of the first six ecumenical councils. But the problem is that Jesus said to Peter, "Thou art Peter and Upon this Rock I will build my church." This means that the teaching of the Catholic Church moves forward. It kept moving forward even after the main break in 1066. There have been, to date, 21 Ecumenical Councils in the Church.
The Orthodox Churches were somewhat left behind in this. By rejecting the Ecumenical Councils held since then, they did not grow in their understanding of the faith. Their liturgies are beautiful, valid, and holy. Their priests are wonderful. They have retained some things pertaining to the early church as well. They are not Protestants in any sense of the word.
The Orthodox Churches are true Churches and hopefully will someday return to Rome and there will be one Catholic Church.
- Anonymous7 years ago
The catholic church is certainly not the original church as the church was originally centered in the city of Constantinople and Nicaea. Furthermore the Catholics are lead by a 'dictator' named the pope. God is our leader/maker and his makings should be equal not have supremacy over others such as a dictator.
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- ?Lv 71 decade ago
Hi Josiah!
You know I love you. But I am just SO not into the whole "who's better" deal. I just won't play that game. God does not like it. God desires unity. Even amongst our differences.
I have a great affection for Eastern Churches. Those under the Holy See as well as those outside of it. Where I am - we all live together so well. We have a number of eccumenical prayer meetings at my big cathedral.
The Orthodox priests are so kind when I run up and hug them. I just can't help myself.
I always encourage Catholics who love liturgy to attend Eastern services. They OOZE of holiness in a way the "contemporary" mass does not. Those under the umbrella of the Holy See - it's even appropriate for us to take communion with. So many Roman Catholics don't know that.
Byzantine Divine Liturgy rocks my world!!! I have family that is Greek Orthodox. I have family that is Syriac Catholic. I love the Liturgy in Aramaic!
What can I say. I love church. I'm a Jesus Freak.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
To say that the RCC is the true christian church is somewhat arrogant and misleading...something Christ would abhor. Eastern Orthodoxy is not defective by reason of not acknowledging the Pope. Actually, the Pope should acknowledge Eastern Orthodoxy as the "earliest" christian church...remember, the New Testament was written in Greek, not Latin. Anyway, the Pope should pray for forgiveness and acknowledge his equality amongst humble christians as Jesus would have wanted.
- 1 decade ago
The Roman Catholic church is the only Christian church founded by our Lord Jesus and based on the solid foundation of the Rock of Peter, the Pope. The Orthodox church are schismatics. They separated from the Roman catholic church in 1054. They do not accept the divinely instituted authority of the Vicar of Christ (the Pope) , celibacy in priests, and the insertion of the ' filioque clause' in the Nicene Creed among other factors.
In the Orthodox tradition, the line in question reads "We believe in the Holy Spirit ... who proceeds from the Father", while in the Catholic tradition it reads "We believe in the Holy Spirit ... who proceeds from the Father and the Son". It is most often referred to as simply "filioque" or "the filioque." Difference of a few words but a big difference in meaning. The Catholic church would rather lose a big chunk of its followers than compromise on a few words that distort truth.
All denominations falsely claim to be church of Christ but the Roman Catholic church is the only true Bride of Christ since it is the only one that has had St.Peter as its first Pope whose direct successor is Pope Benedict XVl among other truths.
- imacatholic2Lv 71 decade ago
Here is the full text of the new document that states nothing new: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cf...
Most Christian denominations believe that each of them is the fullest version of the Church of Christ.
Catholics and Eastern Orthodox split in 1054 because of differences of opinion in doctrine. The Eastern Orthodox think they are more correct and the Catholics think they are.
While the Catholic Church also believes that she is "the highest exemplar" of the mystery that is the Church of Christ, she does not claim that non-Catholic Churches are not truly Christian. The Catholic Church teaches:
Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.
Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church.
All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him.
With love in Christ.
Source(s): For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 819: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3a... - 1 decade ago
The Orthodox Church is The Church.
Orthodoxy is not a religion, is the true nature of man - "red,yellow,black or white"
For Max Marie : relativism is fatal to The Truth
Very good,Patricia !
- Anonymous1 decade ago
All of the power in the early church was exerted from the Byzantines toward Rome.
Since the Roman empire was split, and Constantine took power as Church ruler, the church was led from the East.
You're correct that Rome itself was a proxy until the Schism.