Are the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve tribes of Ishmael together symbolically the twenty four elders?

The number 12 is found in many places. Some say it refers to the heavenly realm, while the number 7 refers to the earthly realm.

Remember there were also 12 apostles, 12 signs of the zodiac, 12 months in a year.

Look at these pictures, portraying the Virgin Mary standing on a crescent moon or crescent Venus with 12 stars around her head. These images are all over Europe. Why would they want to depict 12 tribes of Isreal?

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/virga_aurea.html

http://www.nd.edu/~wcawley/corson/serpent.htm

I think it all goes back to the beginning of religion with Ahkenaten in Egypt when their Gods lived among the stars and they worshipped the sun and moon.

You can also draw a parallel between Jesus and Sirius, the morning star.

Mary would be the planet Venus in the crescent stage. The three stars of Orion's belt shine brightest in mid-winter, pointing to the east where Sirius rises. Jesus would be Sirius, rising Dec 25, the winter solstice, defeating darkness and bringing spring. He then would die at the spring equinox (Easter).

Acharya S. claims Jesus the "Son of God" is really the SUN of God. Here's a short video. http://www.truthbeknown.com/mary.html

Again, the central theme is the giving of life, the seasons, and the sun.

The 12 stars would be the "heavenly hosts" or signs of the zodiac. The astrological basis for modern religion has been lost over the centuries but can still be seen in ancient art and buried in the Bible. The number 24 is the number of hours in the day.

More about the pagan roots of Christianity. http://www.humanistsofutah.org/1999/WasJesusManOrM...

If you read Barbara Thiering's book, "Jesus the Man," you will be convinced that the Essenes used a symbolic language that was neither about the past nor about the future but about what early Christians were trying to accomplish in their own lifetime and to convey secrets. In a way, it was a code language. [By the way, I don't fully agree with the book--some of it is too far fetched--but there is strong evidence that "pesher" technique was used by early Essenes/Christians to communicate with each other].

The 24 elders in Revelation 4:4 alludes to 24 groups of priests created by David [an elder must have been appointed for each]. But the "pesher" of that verse is that the author of Revelations sees the church dividing into 24 churches, perhaps on a regional basis.

So if you were living in John's time and were an Essene, you would have known that meant a proposal to divide the church into 24 groups. Others could not have figured that out.

By the way, I am a Muslim, but I probably know more about Christian scriptures than most Christians :-)

some actual are, others unknown. maximum of those tribes have been so blended with different countries they have lost all their identity. The Jews have been actively in touch in conversion of people so any DNA finding out might come from an absurd proposition. it is why while the Bible talks with reference to the descendants of Israel that's bearing on actual everyone. Any differences are long previous. Any presents have been sewed between each and every u . s .. it is why racism is so ridiculous. that's according to non existent differences.

Are there 12 tribes of Ishmael? can you tell me the names of them? I would appreciate it... then maybe I will try to research on that.. Thanks! However, the name Israel refers to Jacob and and his sons were the fathers of the 12 tribes of Israel, nothing to do with ishmael since from the lineage of ishmael comes the muslim religion. But anyway, I will still research on that.. thanks for the info.

Good question...but sorry, I don't have an answer for you. However, it does make me want to know the answer to that also.