Please help me Christians! Important question on morals!?

The simple fact is that most atheists that I am acquainted with are MUCH more 'christian' (i.e., they conduct themselves the way that christians are SUPPOSED to conduct themselves) than are most christians that I know. And... they are not hypocritical, which most christians that I know or know of ARE.

I this forum, I am appalled to be constantly reminded that there are people out there who are so out of touch with their basic humanity, and reality, that they would not have any idea how to conduct themselves in society, absent the code of an imaginary supernatural being, based on the myths, superstitions, fairy tales and fantastical delusions of an ignorant bunch of Bronze Age fishermen and wandering goat herders.

Cooperation, altruism and love are innate properties of human existence... a more sophisticated version of the social organization that you can see among pods of dolphins or orcas, packs of wolves, lion prides and troops of chimpanzees. Moral consensus, moral conscience and mutual empathy are evolved survival traits. These are social constructs... the social lubrication that allows people to exist together. People come away with the misconception that they don't exist, absent religion. The religious puppet masters try to perpetuate that idea, in order to protect their conduits to wealth and power... but that is a canard. This has to do, entirely, with human nature.

***********************

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." ~ Steven Weinberg

***********************

Richard Dawkins - The Root of All Evil Part 2.1 (moral behavior)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mGLPViVW5ms

Richard Dawkins - The Root of All Evil Part 2.6 (evolution basis for morality)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mGLPViVW5ms&mode=relate...

.

http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/submissions/steal_...

WHY CHRISTIANS MUST STEAL FROM SECULAR MORALITY

The Bible does nothing and can do nothing towards inculcating moral behavior on its own. Christians must steal from secular moral systems, and then merely graft their 'God threats' on top of this moral system. This is necessary. And the reason for this is simple: there is no morality in the Bible and there can be no morality in the Bible, because the Bible holds that 1) ALL 'sins' are equivalent (destroying any moral sense) AND 2) all moral behavior is immaterial, because works cannot save a person, AND finally all people are damned from birth.

In reality, Christians realize that some actions are more moral than others. They realize that moral actions exist in a hierarchy, and that rape is far worse than stealing a pencil. Yet the Bible holds that all 'sins' are equal, as all deserve the same punishment.

---

http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/cohen.html

Are we to believe that if we had never received a revelation from God, or even if there were no belief in God, a mother would never have learned to love her child, men and women would never have loved each other, men would never have placed any value upon honesty or truthfulness or loyalty? After all we have seen an animal mother caring for its young, even to the extent of risking its life for it. We have seen animals defend each other from a common enemy and join together in running down prey for a common meal. There is a courting time for animals, there is a mating time, and there is a time however brief when the animal family of male, female and young exist. All this happened to the animals without God. Why should man have to receive a revelation before he could reach the moral stage of the higher animal life?

Think about this: If you are a good Christian, and you of course, believe in the Bible, then by nature any non-Christian is less moral than a Christian simply for not believing in the Bible. Right? but.. everyone has a bias, and this is a Christian point of view. To an athiest, you may have less morals. My point is: every interpretation is subject to the persons point of view. May I suggest, within your own mind, contesting your own beliefs - read from the Bible if you believe in the Bible, and ask "Does this seem right to ME?" Don't worry about angering God. God already knows what you're thinking. A good father will answer any question his child has with love.

I am not a Christian but I am a Deist. I believe in a Creator or Deity. If there is a Creator then the Creator is the ultimate power in the universe and the final arbiter of right and wrong.

Atheist, by eliminating the Creator, they eliminate along with him the absolute morality that the Creator represents. This leaves a void that is then filled by mankind itself or in other words, man is God or the final arbiter of right and wrong. This is called moral relativism and it is what Atheists believe. In a nutshell, moral relativism means there is no absolute right or absolute wrong. This means morality means whatever we want it to mean. If something means whatever you want it to mean, it has no real meaning.

Therefore, by rejecting moral absolutism (God) and accepting moral relativism they are in fact Atheist (no God) and immoral (no real morality).

EDIT- Interesting how many wonderfully moral Atheist everyone is mentioning. How about the Atheists like Stalin, Lenin, Castro etc. What happens in countries where Atheism is the rule instead of the exception?

.

hahaha.... well, we're less moral because we don't agree unquestioningly with everything the Christian leaders say. Because of this horrible tendency toward intellectual development we are not useful (even threatening) to these leaders and so we must be demonized to avoid contaminating the flock at large. The Bible is the only source of morality for a similar reason: the immense desire of a few to hold complete power over the many.

I think, however, that just as you were confused when asking this question I am just as confused when answering it. Alas....

HI,

The only difference is you don't accept that there's a life after

death, that God or Jesus exist. Your morals are no less or

better. I sometimes feel Christians go to church so much

because of the sins they need to get rid of to get to heaven.

I'm a Christian but don't attend church. The ones I've attendedhave bad people not the church itself. When you think of priest molesting children or pastors stealing from the

church and living a very material life when members of the

congregation are just barely getting by, you figure that out.

So really we're all born with carnal knowledge of right and wrong and God will forgive the people He chooses, right.

I have known atheist whom I have thought to be highly moral people, but that misses the point for morality alone will not get a person into Heaven. Deity religion, whether it's Bible based or otherwise, is the total foundation of morality. Any "morality" outside those parameters is nothing more than man's foolishness.

There are many non-christian cultures which share most of the moral values of Christians. Most of the people who live in these cultures have never read the Bible. The sense of right and wrong is inborn in people and is generally God-given. There are many atheists who are good citizens, are good family people, and are polite and civil to their neighbors. Religiosity does not have an exclusive handle on moral values. There are also "Christians" who are self centered, rude, and sinful and unkind to others. The point is, however that Christians have been commanded to follow Christ and love themselves and others. The fact that other cultures live moral lives is not out of commandment it is because they want to be good people. Christians need to feel the same way.

Why does everyone seem to think you're implying that atheists are less moral than Christians?

Anyway, it's because atheists have no morals. For some reason the atheists don't read the volumes of non-religious ethical philosophy available to them. Crazy, huh?

Those are general statements. But there are fundamental religions that claim to know the only way to a moral life and after is through what they teach.

There are many atheists who could never be convinced of the reality of God. I think it is because the way it is jammed down peoples throats.

I have known many athiets who had better morals than some christians. Unfortunately, there is nothing more un-Godly than a Christian holier than thou. One who knows it all. Damm it. heh

Jesus recognized the pomposity and regidity inherent in organized religion and preached against making money and prospering as a result of religion.

Also aganist the anal retenative who populate the

halls of mental wards. They are known as psychiatrists.

The only problem with the new testament is that it makes no mention of legal partners, don't ask don't tell and teen sex. But the average age then was 31 at death so what are you worried?

Jesus preached we should pray singularly and in silence. He preached that we should be humble, honor parents and women, and to respect that others had legitimate beliefs(my house has many mansions).

What Jesus preached is a gift for rejoicing but many preachers are sure that God never smiles and

punishes us with disease and threats of fire, even though he gave us free choice or free will.

It is alarming, however, there are so many that dont get it. Not that I know that much, but the New testament is pretty clear when you see that all the apostles stories fit in with what Jesus preached.

That is why i believe the New Testament is true and

Testament hard to read, for of contradictions, sex, crime, incest, murder, and duplicity. While it may be true, it is hard to follow, even though its stories were alligorical because only nobility and religious were educated around the time it was written. If you wanted your people to toe the line, what would be better than to read them the Bible?

Given the carnage, death, destrtuction and horror the White House has brought to Iraq, it might be well to elect a non-christian next election. I think this president believes he has a date with destiny and it is pulled right out of the apocolypse, and that is scaring a lot of people, me included. Give me a disabled, black womaan, gay drawf in the whitehouse anyday. Bertter than the macho SOB's who have been elected before.

So, lets pray to BAL I am wrong and spoutings about evil and laying waste to Iraq are the ravings of a republican who discovered his wife if gay. Anything but a former, draft dodging drunk who can't live without the drama that accompanies the alcoholic whereever he goes. As an athiest, I pray to God we get through the next year and a half. Save the kids. Give the churches to the athiests. Solve child abuse and war with a stroke of the pen.

And thanks to global warming, we need Hopi rain dances in the worst way, We need prayers of all the holy men and women to get out of this one alive.

We need the prayers of Muslims and Jews to cool this place down. (Like they have coolded their countrys down)Where is mother Theresa when we need her? Let us bray.

From the writings found in a pickle jar, in a queeran cave, believed to be the musings of a wandering athiest who had gone to the desert to pray for 40 days and 40 nights,

while everything went to hell in a hand basket.