Do you think the incidence of men wanting to "veto" their girlfriend's abortion ...?

What came to my mind when I read this question was not the couple agonizing over whether to have the baby, but the scared, unmarried young woman abandoned by the baby's father for whom she was less than a one-night stand. Suppose he had an equal say in whether or not she should carry to term and insisted that she should when she wanted to abort, and then walked out of her life?

That happened to a friend of mine, who has worked very hard indeed to raise her son. The father promised her a future until she passed the point of legal abortion, and then walked away. He never intended to stick around and be part of his son's life, much less support his child financially. He didn't believe in abortion or fatherhood. His loss.

I'm a guy (obviously...) and I'll just give you the male perspective. I don't speak for all guys. I live in a conservative, Midwest city and I have run into this situation myself. I also have a few friends who went though it.

My own feeling was that I shouldn't tell my girlfriend what to do with her body. I told her that I would be there for her no matter what her descion was. She asked me if I wanted the child. I told her that I hadn't planned on being a father so early in life (I was 19) , but that I would be a very proud father, and that I would marry her if that was what she wanted. This was not a casual relationship, we had been dating for about a year and a half, and I was very much in love with her.

She leveled me. I mean to tell you, I was LAMBLASTED! She screamed and yelled for about 10 minutes solid. She told me that I was making her feel awful, and that I couldn't lay all these big descions on her shoulders. I was speechless. I couldn't win. If I had told her that I wanted the baby, she would blame me if things got rough down the road. If I told her that she should put it up for adoption, or have an abortion, then I would be controlling what she did with her body. I offered my full support, and I was still the bad guy.

Two months later, she told me that she miscarried. I found out shortly thereafter that she'd had an abortion. It ruined the trust in our relationship. She borrowed the money from a friend. Her explanation-she didn't want 'the guilt hanging on my head.'

Not all men are given the chance to 'veto' the abortion, and many of us would feel VERY uncomfortable doing so. I can't possibly begin to understand what having a baby is like. It's simply NOT my decision. My job is to support the woman I love. This is what I have been taught, that a relationship is give and take.

So, my question to you: Should a man 'control' his partner? You are obviously opposed to abortion. That's fine, but just how much should a guy intervene in the woman's decision? At what point does a man cross the line? Should we 'guilt' a woman into having a child? Or, is this a case where the ends justify the means? Should I physically threaten her? (I would never do such a thing, but, once again...do the ends justify the means?)

As I said, I don't feel comfortable 'vetoing' something like an abortion. If the child's mother doesn't want a baby, what kind of life is the child going to have. I'm older and wiser, and I will never have this issue again, but these things are tough to deal with sometimes. Just food for thought.

Ok let's put it this way: Men, if you guys are the ones carrying the baby for 9 months, would you prefer to have more say than your female partner whether or not to keep the baby?

Most people would prefer to have more decision-making power over what happens to their bodies, I don't blame them it's their bodies! Hence I think it is not a power play when the woman has more say. Come on, like a woman enjoys getting an abortion or carrying a baby she doesn't genuinely want for 9 months!

But that doesn't mean women shouldn't respect their partners and hear them out.

I do know a man who tried his very best to discourage his girlfriend from having an abortion. Her mind was set. He managed to dissuade her somehow, but he didn't have an easy time of it. This was their second child. The man I'm referring to was physically abusive and was suspected to have had sexually abused the couple's first child. He was also a severe drug addict. The mother just couldn't bear the thought of bringing another child into this situation. She had no support from her family. She had no one to turn to. She only had him.

I think that in these situations, both the mother and the father have a responsibility to each other to discuss the options available to them and to try to understand the other person's point of view.

In the end, however, the final decision must remain that of the mother. It is her body, and the baby will ultimately have a deeper impact on her life than that of the father. I know some will disagree with me on that. This is just my opinion. Who are we to judge someone else's situation? We can't. We've not walked a mile in their shoes.

I wish people would try a little harder to avoid the situations that make unwanted or unplanned pregnancies possible. I realize, however, that even the best protection can sometimes fail.

I wasn't able to find any data on the percentage of men who want the children in these unexpected circumstances. I would say, though, that for every man that wants to keep the child, there's definitely another complaining about being "trapped" by a pregnancy.

When all my friends who have kids started talking about it, it was the women who were eager to become mothers...of course the fathers love their kids now that they're here, but they were definitely the more reluctant. Totally anecdotal, but actually without exception in my experience.

I did find an interesting article on Slate.com on the legal reasons why women are protected when making this choice:

http://www.slate.com/?id=2069132

EXCERPT: "This was the logic of Planned Parenthood v. Casey, the 1992 abortion decision that reaffirmed a woman's right to privacy in part because "The mother who carries a child to full term is subject to anxieties, to physical constraints, to pain that only she must bear. ... Her suffering is too intimate and personal for the State to insist, without more, upon its own vision of the woman's role."...

On almost every other front, men have achieved legal parity in asserting their constitutionally protected rights in the care and oversight of their offspring. Where a mother's body is not involved, the law has gone a long way toward establishing equality: The presumption for mothers in custody battles is no longer the law."

I'm all for equality, but there's actually no biological possibility for equality pre-birth--sort of like having women serve in the Infantry vs. as fighter pilots...it just wouldn't make bodily sense, though everyone does have their role to play.

Everybody practice safe sex. Please.

I think that this sub-issue of abortion is irrelevant. If the couple is stupid enough to concede an unwanted child, than don't you think any decision made after that is going to be equally or even more rediculous. It's either abortion, adoption, or rasing the child, each one is comprobable to the next in their asininity, (however adoption is probably the best and keeping the child is probably the worst thing) I think that any scandelousness involving the couple after the knowledge of the unwanted child is revealed should be expected.

Her body, her womb. If she doesn't want the baby so bad that she doesn't want to carry it to term, then that is her call.

Only once have I ever heard of a guy arguing to NOT abort the baby, but I knew him: he didn't mean it, he was just making sure no one could accuse him of not 'manning up,' and wanted to be sure she wasn't shooting for abortion to please him. I know that sounds stupid, but this guy was no Stephen Hawking.

My opinion? Final word is hers. If she doesn't want it, I won't make her keep it.

Your anecdotal evidence is just that; anecdotal evidence. Your sample is probably 2 men, and to say ''never'' proves it, otherwise, it would never be ''never''; they're are always too many exceptions. As others have said, men usually want their babies more. They just refuse to pay child support because of either: a) not knowing how the money is used. b) angry to not even have partial custody of their kid(s).

Anyway, it's funny how some feminists bash Christians when they really have a lot in common. Yes, Christians have soooo much in common with feminists, not to mention, Right-Wingers. What's also not surprising, is that they blindly agree with you, ''Leader'' of this new ''YAFL''.

As others have pointed out, you're whole argument is... non-existent.

Anyone who agrees should not be surprised if feminists are called man-haters.

There is a fallacy in your approach, well several actually. The first is attempting to generalize to an entire population (males) from anecdotal experience with an extremely small sample.

Second, think about the scenario you describe. You don't "hear" about men not wanting their women to get abortions. Well, how many men never even get the opportunity to voice that opinion because the woman never tells them she is pregnant!?!

My current husband was married before me and his wife got pregnant and had an abortion and didn't tell him until AFTER she had the abortion!! Then, she got pregnant a second time, but it wasn't discovered until she had been admitted to a rehab facility for alcoholism and mental illness. The doctors told my husband that going through with the pregnancy would impede her treatment since she could not take medications, etc. throughout the pregnancy. They also claimed the baby would have a high likelihood of disorders because of her drunkenness throughout early pregrancy. Extremely reluctantly, my husband agreed to the second abortion and he ended up never having a child of his own. He says it is his biggest regret, but he did what he thought was right for his then-wife.

He has been a marvelous step-father to my two children even though he did not enter their lives until they were both teenagers. I think more men would want their babies than you might think if only they knew they existed and were not powerless to do anything about it.

I have I had a girlfriend, she was English, I am of Greek descent, who said after getting pregnant, "I don't want a Greek baby." I was absolutely appalled and opposed to her having an abortion. She went ahead anyway. I was devastated. This is a form of female power. -> I have the reproductive ability. -> This is my body. -> This is my baby. (almost like it's their property) -> You have absolutely no right, no say in the matter.

Feminists always seem to belittle men's feeling as a father. I assure you I as a father can love my child as much as a woman can love her child. You are denying me these rights.