I've been repeatedly asked to make a list of things that I feel should not be included in the feminist ...

Wow Hala!

1- Certain jobs were men's jobs for a reason? Yeah, the reason was that women were NOT allowed or encouraged to take those jobs. I work in a male dominated field, do you think I should have not been hired because I don't have a penis, hence less capable?

2- Women did not have voting rights, either. Do you think there was a justified reason for that too, sweetheart?

3- Feminism has given women an opportunity to leave abusive marriages and not stay based on financial needs. Should we take away those opportunities to make sure they stay in the house and don't leave or speak up?

4- Day care? LOL Should we shut down all restaurants too, that way more women will cook?

5- What school lowes admission standards based on gender? I'm interested in getting into a PhD program next year. I certainly could use all the advantages I could get for my vagina. What's the name of the school?

6- What job lowers the standards for vaginas? Give me specific names and examples. I have been in the job market longer than you and have yet to see this.

7- Sexual revolution breakign down families? No sweetie, I get to have an orgasm when I have sex, while my grandma died not knowing what it was and that she was supposed to have one. That's what sexual revolution did.

I know better than attacking you, as I have a better understanding of where you're coming from...but the claims that you made are not factual :)

EDIT:

I'm sorry about the name calling and the verbal abuse for expressing personal opinions Hala. Object of Ire really needs some immediate medical attention or some anger management classes. Her condition is deteriorating by the day.

If those are what you plan to put on your list? I would think twice about that. It's controversial in nature. The exact things on your list is why Feminism exist. To tell a Woman what they can and cannot do, or what they should do, creates dictation. You cannot dictate to anyone or question them as to how to live their lives, why they should stay home and watch their child(ren) instead of putting them in daycare. What does that tell the single parents or Mothers for that matter. Live off the system and let tax payers pay for their livelihood so that they can stay home and not find a job to be a self sufficient individual or a parent who is out there supporting their child(ren)? It's ABSURD.

When you add things on a so called "anti-feminist or non-feminist" list, you take away the privileges and rights of those who are out there just to support their family. You then create another "monster" in the making, and that being the SINGLE Parent's. As IF these single parents have a big trust fund to stay home.

Reality is as it is. You either make a list that is reasonable and is supportive for everyone or you subject yourself to being involved in a controversial issue that will stem from single parents to a one to two family income married couples.

Bottom line? What or who are you trying to accommodate with that list? It is INSIGNIFICANT.

I can't totally agree with you.

Some, not all, women are more physically fit than men for some jobs.

Restricting a women based on gender is NOT sufficient.

Restricting a woman based on SKILL and ABILITY is sufficient.

If a 280 pound woman can SACK a man, she should be entitled to be a LINEBACKER on a football team.

If she can DEMONSTRATE she can take ANY man on that team and SACK him, that is sufficient.

IF she becomes a lineback and complains because the opposite man slams her in the boobs and hurts her, then should be DISQUALIFED

If a woman can DO the work equally, let her do it.

I see NO reason to stop a woman from being a TANK gunnar than a MAN. If she can target and shoot and stop the oppositiion, MORE POWER TO HER

It is the BEST PERSON

The MOMENT you STOP the best person because they have a vagina instead of a penis that is WRONG

The BEST prevails

If a WOMAN sacks a man and dislocates his shoulder because she has PMS, tough TOODIES

If a woman gets into the ring with Mike Tyson and knocks him out in 5 seconds, THOUGH TOODIES

If a woman says HE WHACKED ME IN THE BOOBIES, then TOUGH TOODIES ON HER

THE LAW says you can't use an instances as both a SWOARD and a SHIELD then WOMEN have to live with it!

They can't get into FOOTBALL or HEAVY WEIGHT boxing and then scream HE WENT FOR MY BOOBIES

It don't work

THEN it becomes SEXUAL

THEN discrimination is allowed

I DO think in SOME situatioins the COURTS should award the HUSBANDS the kids, the house, the car and make the woman pay the bills

AND they are doing it to Bitney Spears

So far FED-EX is getting MORE than Birtney!

i am somewhat confused. if these are things that you find should not be liberties given to women, this is my response:

in relating to jobs, it has been proven that women are psychologically stronger than men (but i do agree that women are not physically as strong as men.). In the case of the military, 2/3 of the world's greatest assassins are women (but i do agree with you strictly because of the countless acts of sexual abuse committed that are never reported.). And it is better that women join the work force because it actually gives women independence, allowing women to become stronger minded and allowing them to develop a non-tolerance against sexual and physical abuse from their male "superiors". And in the case of sending children to daycare, i believe that it actually allows the children to become more social, and more intelligent because they would be able to be guided more properly by a person who has at least some training in educating children.

And the entire Ms. vs. Mrs. position. well, i actually have no idea what you are referring to. and to address the supermom ego thing, well i believe that is just a stereotype and it is a result of a huge amount of stress placed on women who stay home rather than work. which is something that you stressed earlier. so i believe that it is somewhat hypocritical that you want women to stay at home with children and then criticize them later.

I am sure many others will raise various objections to your list, but I'll chime in with one that stood out.

Women as religious leaders... while this has been an issue in Abrahamic religions, it is hardly a cultural universal. And feminists haven't the power to impose on religious institutions anyway. (The Catholic Church heaves a sigh of relief.) When many denominations moved toward the ordination of women, there were great internal conflicts among believers on this question, but very little imposition from without.

Should religions NOT be allowed to revise their views because the revisions HAPPEN to accord with feminism?

"The right to take jobs they are not mentally, emotionally or physically strong enough to do -- jobs that are men's jobs for a reason."

I don't think anyone here will disagree with that, but there ARE women who have that ability. We can't bar all because most can't do it.

"Special privileges and accommodations extended just because of being a woman -- standards lowered or waived so they can enter a school, work or military area that is better suited for a man."

I think most feminists would prefer to have equal standards.

"Being allowed even encouraged to leave young children in daycare rather than stay home and see to their care."

What's wrong with letting women use day care? It's never been proven to have any detrimental effects on the children, and she really doesn't need to be there for every single milestone.

"The whole divorce culture feminism brought about with their easy exits for women (no fault, ect)"

I do think women should stick around for the long haul if the men aren't abusive or unbearable to be around. People should be allowed to escape bad marriages.

"The whole "Ms" thing with no distinction between Mrs and Miss, the entire non-sexist language thing (example he and she rather than just he...the whole thing is silly)"

That might not be very important, but you have to wonder why men only need one honorific and we need three.

"The have it all mentality (super moms)

then blaming it on others when they fail at having it all."

In many cases, there are forces at work that prevent women from having it all. In many other cases, these women do have as much of it as possible, and are very happy.

"The whole sexual revolution, including cohabitation. (Break down of family)"

It's nobody's business if women decide to cohabit. If that relationship happens to go sour, it's the fault of her and her partner, not feminism. Not everyone needs a family.

"Allowing women to be religious leaders! (women should never be religious leaders)"

Well, why not? What makes women ill-equipped to take a leadership role in religious circles?

"The sexual harassment area started out ok but then they took that wayyy too far, 5 year olds being expelled for kissing a girl? hello?"

That's not feminism at work — those are usually oversensitive idiots who want their kids not to be in physical contact with each other until marriage.

"And the villinizing of gender roles."

Gender roles are only villainized when they're forced upon women who don't want to play them.

ARE YOU CLAIMING TO BELIEVE THAT GOD CREATED EVE WITH A LOWER LEVEL OF VALUE THAN HE INTENDED FOR ADAM TO POSSESS??

It is the enumeration of those differences that serve as the basis of a class discrimination.

The fundamental flaw in any proclaimed GENDER ROLES is this: Your reasoning is irrational. Because at it's foundation is the NECESSITY that ALL men perform with the SAME and IDENTICAL level in all things that men engage in. The problem with your reasoning is that you would have to prove that all women, without exception, are incapable of performing with the integrity in all aspects when compared to all men. Because you are attempting to establish a form of class discrimination where all women are treated as a class inferior to all men as a class. That as a class, women are characteristically incapable of exhibiting the prerequisites only men as a class possess. UTTER NONSENSE!!

Shingoshi Dao

2007.Nov.16 Fri, 21:09 --800 (PST)

Your daycare argument is out of whack - some women have no choice but to leave their children in daycare.

I have the same biases as you do. Women should not be allowed to work at jobs they are both physically and psychologically not able to do. There are reasons for that; some can't see that; that's their fault and not yours.**I also second the motion of woman pushing out men for the sake of their own selves; being that it is quite degrading; one would wonder if equal rights is the really their agenda wouldn't they rather be treated the same as opposed to being treated with special privilege? In truth it knock the cry for equality way out into left field,**The child care issue is one that no one likes, still it is essential for all women, following all walks of life. For this point let's rely on the quality of time that is given; not the quantity that is given.**That Ms thing I could never comprehend myself. Yes, it is silly; like asking are you a female or a he-she? **Being a super mom is quite a headache I would think. Yes, I agree they are failing miserably. Your head is on right.

Edit Object: For once in your putrid life SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!

Edit Zucchini: Go and stuff yourself; that's if you know what to do.

Edit Baba: As for global warming write to an agency that deals with it. As for your high blood pressure take garlic tablets. As for the decline in the real estate market, sell your house that ought to help them. As for rising oil prices, keep your thermostat at the same temperature, usually 68 should suffice. It wouldn't hurt to walk or bicycle, that saves on gas. As for the runs in your pantyhose, throw them out and buy a new pair. As for the homeless veterans, start a chapter; in other word put your money where your mouth is. Ahh, one more thing to say that band you're wearing around your head is a tad bit too tight.

As for the rest of you fem-wads: You're the ones around here who really hate women; no one else; just you. That's not a lie; it's truth.

You forgot global warming.

High blood pressure.

The decline in the real estate market.

Rising oil prices.

Runs in pantyhose.

Homeless veterans.

And you'll also deny being a misogynist. ("No, I love women, I just think women belong in their place and I'm the one who gets to decide that.")

Good lord!

ETA: you have a degree in psychology? From where, Oral Roberts Correspondence School? Well, you're entitled to your opinions. You must be loads of fun at a party.

ETA #2: Ms Lioness may understand where you're coming from, but I don't. I wouldn't mind seeing another post from you explaining why you feel so strongly. Also, what is it you hope to accomplish in your life and career? The journalist in me is coming out, but I won't ask you anything else.