Atheists: Why is murder wrong?

humans are social animals

even packs of dogs know some things NOT to do

Ooh, Dreamstuff said it nicely: "If you found out tomorrow that no gods have ever existed, would you start killing, raping and stealing? Is your belief the only thing preventing you from doing that right now?"

I don't murder because I don't want to hurt people. I've experienced emotional and physical pain, and I know that they're not exactly happy feelings. I respect other people and I wouldn't wish to inflict any pain on them.

Law evolved naturally. Animals have laws too. Look at a wolf pack. All the wolves know that the alpha male is the leader, and they all have a ranking of importance. The lowest ranking member of the pack wouldn't dare to eat from a kill before the alpha male.

If God's existence is the only reason you don't murder people...well, that's a little freaky.

Why do YOU think it's wrong? Is it only because you're afraid of going to hell? If you found out God didn't exist, and you knew the police wouldn't catch you, would you immediately go out and start killing your neighbors? If so, then I am very glad indeed that you are religious, and would implore you to never stop going to church, ever.

Or is there something else that makes murder inherently wrong? Here's why I don't go around killing people, and wouldn't, even if I could get away with it: It hurts people, and I don't like to see other people in pain. I don't want anyone to kill me, so I assume other people feel the same way, and I show them the same courtesy. I know that our society runs more smoothly when we don't go around killing each other, and I want to live in a pleasant environment.

I think the reason's I've just given are true for just about everybody (excluding sociopaths), even you religious ones who haven't really thought the whole morality thing through and insist you get your morals from God.

We as a species have evolved empathy, compassion, loyalty, and all kinds of other behavioral traits which cause us get along well together as a society. If you understand the concept of natural selection, it's really not that difficult to figure out why such traits would survive, and why civilized humans would take that to the next step and start creating laws.

I suggest that everyone who thinks they get their morality from God actually think long and hard about WHY things are moral or immoral, regardless of whether God makes the rules or not. What benefits and detriments do your actions have on yourself, the people around you, and society as a whole? Why are we better off with laws than without them? And do you really need "God" to tell you any of these things, or are you smart enough to figure it out for yourselves? Because I think all of you are. You just have to give yourselves enough credit.

1. Your god clearly believes in situational ethics, as he commands his people not to ever kill, then commands them to murder men, women and children in the OT.

2. Empathy for my fellow man tells me I should not lie, cheat, steal from or murder them. Some empathy is learned as a small child, but most has evolved along with humanity. We are social creatures who rely heavily on one another. It is in our nature to care about other people. God is in no way implied by conscience.

3. Logic also tells us not to kill. We are able to see the consequences of our actions. People murdering people willy nilly does not make for a pleasant society. Even those who might want to kill can fear retaliation or punishment for their crime without the help of a god.

EDIT:

" In a pack of lions, hyenas, etc. the weak are often left to die."

Yes, and that happens with people in hard times too. However, dolphins, hawks, dogs, crows, elephants, etc have also been observed seeing to the needs of the injured, weak, or helpless when they are able. What is your point here?

If God exists why is murder wrong? Why would it be such a big deal? By murdering someone you have only succeeded in putting him in heaven much sooner! Sure, it's a sin, God has declared it thus, but just like whacking off, all you need to do is go to your priest, confess, and, voila, be forgiven for this sin!

Now, try imagining that there REALLY is no afterlife and that this is the only life you will ever get. The very thought of murdering someone, of taking EVERYTHING from them, their life, the only thing they will ever have, would make you sick to your stomach.

Morals and laws evolved with society well before religion!! It made sense to have marriage to keep a family together to raise children. Whilst primitive tribes might hunt and kill rivals they still saw killing one of their own as murder!!

But you keep asking atheists these questions - I wonder why?

Could it be because Christians do not know the answers?

After all government statistics show that Christians are grossly over represented in jail for sexual and violent crimes. Indeed worldwide mass murderers claim they were doing what god told them to do!!

So why atheists? Just plain old Christians smoke screen and intolerance then?!!!!

I have to agree with dreamstuff. The custom of Law came about because society came about and we realized that more can be gained if we work as a team...so I can go live in your cabin in the winter and you can come live in my beach house in the summer...we get the best of both worlds.

So because society was a better option than being the lone wolf we also realized that we needed an established code of conduct...so when you come to my house in the winter I want to know upfront that there are laws in place to discourage you from killing me in my sleep and taking the cabin for yourself.

In short I don't think the 2 are related. I'm an atheist and I still believe in, "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you reject anything with the merest hint of God out of hand...being an atheist means that you think about life in a rational manner rather than accepting the spoon fed version.

The custom of law evolved as the necessity of the group to work as a team came into play. If you need a group to survive and a member starts killing others you kill that member. Simple preservation.

Humans do leave the weak to die if it immediately detriments the group. Animals care for their injured, and their young even though they are slower and posses no help in the defense of the pack. Your points make no sense.

because the act is considered as 'mala inse' or, it's just naturally not a right thing to do, god or no god. unless under certain circumstances, which you have no choice but to do it. and you know it happens all the time. people just look for reasons to do it. just dont get killed for the wrong reason. such a waste!

Maybe murder isn't wrong. In the bible, Joshua slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people who did nothing to the Jews. and it was all good.

War is murder. The death penalty is murder. Good Christians believe in those things, right?

So murder is OK.

It's the old "all morals come from a god, and specifically my god".

If you found out tomorrow that no gods have ever existed, would you start killing, raping and stealing? Is your belief the only thing preventing you from doing that right now?

If so, are you really a moral person?

If theists believe they are rewarded for doing good, it's only atheists who only do good because they are good, not because they believe they will be rewarded.

And let me point out that your god is not somebody I'd consider moral - sending bears to kill kids for making fun of a bald guy, murdering babies, drowning kittens...

P.S. The bible doesn't mention necrophilia - how do you know it's wrong?

For a more detailed explanation: http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/morals.htm...