Intelligent Christians only-- If G-d changed His mind once, maybe He's done so again?

Not all Christian even believe in an eternal fiery Hell.

Not all Christians are trying to convert Jews.

I have been reading an English translation of the Torah. I don't find these huge mistranslations yet. I admit I only read and speak English. I do see areas for difference of opinions and interpretations. I am learning more by reading the commentaries of Rabbis.

Your eternal covenant could NOT have been done away with. God doesn't change. That doesn't mean He can't have one with the Gentiles.

I believe you misunderstand 2 Corinthians 3, the bottom line is in verse 5

Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.

First of all, God's covenant with the children of Israel has *not* been done away with. It was unconditional and permanent. I admit some Christians think otherwise. But those who know the scriptures understand this truth. I do understand that you don't believe that Jesus was the messiah. And there are prophecies which Jesus did not fulfill in His earthly ministry. I suppose, to you, the Church's teaching that these prophesies will be fulfilled at Christ's second coming must seem like a case of special pleading. At the end of the day, it all comes down to the resurrection. If Jesus was really raised from the dead, wouldn't that give credibility to His claim to be the messiah? The Church is God's way of extending the blessing of Abraham beyond the borders of Israel to the gentiles. But that does not mean that He has forgotten His promises to Israel. Far from it. Israel will be blessed among the nations. I'm counting on it. For her blessing will be the blessing of the whole earth.

As to the Mormons and JWs. Their leaders weren't raised from the dead. The God they espouse bears no resemblence to the Holy One of Israel. There is really no comparison between Israel/Christianity and these groups. I wish it were possible to communicate this without offending those who genuinely believe and follow the teachings of Messrs Smith and Russel, but there is not. Neither Joseph Smith nor Charles Russel were anything like Jesus of Nazareth. And the religions they founded reflect that fact.

peace

In all politeness and consideration, since I don't know you and have no reason to trip your trigger, that sounds like a lack of education about all four groups. I don't know a single Christian who would say that God "lied to" the Jews, first off. I have conversated extensively and intelligently with both JWs and Mormons, and have found time and time again that when I get close to something they can't refute, they back off in just such a way that it would be rude to follow and press my points. Such is life.

Have a great night!

--EDIT-- Just outta curiosity, and just to pick one of the more obvious ones, who is Micah 5:2 about?

--EDIT-- Thus we come to an impasse, sadly, because it seems you do not recognize either the Matthew 1 or Luke 3 genealogy as valid. Both include David.

--EDIT-- Correct, after Jeconiah (Jehoiachin, accepted variation) there were no descendants who sat on the throne of Israel. Once again we come to an important difference, however -- many Christians say that there will be no "earthly" Messiah. You just, in my opinion anyway, proved the millenial reign wrong. Thank you (no sarcasm intended). Outta curiosity, where does Solomon fit into this? I do see him in only one genealogy.

First of all you managed to insult all Christians by saying that this question was for all Intellegent Christians only. Then you manage to insult all the Jewish people because the Christians are supposed to know a little basic Hebrew. Most of the Jews I know only know a few curse words in Jiddish. Religion, any religion, is not about right or wrong. It is about belief. It does not have to be proven beyond a doubt. It is a matter of faith. You decided the only read the first five books of the Bible and have skipped over all the rest of it. You mock the Christians who read their Bibles and understand what it is they believe in.

Well, sir, it is much more then reading five books and condeming the rest of the world to make one Jewish. Being Jewish is accepting the Sh'mai and the entire Bible. Understanding the Talmud makes one more of a Jew. I find that you have insulted every answerer who tried to give you educated answers. You appear to me to be as bigoted as the few Christians on here who bad mouth the Jews, the JW's, the LDS, and the Muslims.

Next time you post a question how about putting it in a light that shows the true nature of the Jews. Not just ranting with the anti-Christianity that is the same as the anti-Semitism. I am a 60 year old American who happens to be Jewish. I can read and write in Hebrew. Do not like the new Israeli Hebrew and prefer the Ashkenassi. I believe that all religions of the world boil down to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". I don't agree with all religions, in fact I don't believe in all of Judaism. I am a Jew. I say that as a fact and with pride. I do not care that Jesus does not fit the requirements for being a messiah. The Christians do and that is all that matters to them.

Live is way to short to argue over tidbits from one book of a Bible against another book of a different Bible. What anyone believes is the correct religion for them and not for anyone else. The way I follow Judaism is not the same as anyone else in Judaism. There are no two people on earth who believe in their religion the same way.

Let it go and try to spread pro and not negative.

EDIT: Just because I am not a Chrstian does not mean that I don't have the right to answer your question. I do not care how many thumbs down I get. I feel your question is Anti-Christian and shows Judaism in a bad light.

Is your uncertainty caused by what the Lord says or what so-called Christians say? Don't you think it would be a safer bet to trust in the Lord and not man? Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets. He became the only acceptable sacrifice for the sins of the world (the Law) and He fulfilled some 300 prophesies of His first coming (the Prophets). Jesus said it Himself, "I have not some to do away with the Law." So we are still admonished to follow the Law, but we are not held to the consequences of our sins because Jesus has already paid for them. In other words, we should not sin, but if we do, we should ask forgiveness and the Lord is righteous to forgive us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. – 1 John 1:9

Tehilla, you are doing a completely brilliant job here. I have nothing to add, except to the answerer who thought that Jesus being resurrected would be a clincher for us to believe him to be the Messiah. Wrong - the messiah we await will NOT be anything except an ordinary human being. Miracles and resurrection militate AGAINST our accepting him as the messiah.

Excellent posts :)

Sadly no matter how logical your points are, I see from the answers that people are deliberately ignoring them.

Given that we are all writing in the same language, I really don't believe that some of these people don't get it when we repeatedly tell them: 'In the ORIGINAL HEBREW, it is clear, you are reading a MIStranslated version'.

They DO understand that they are reading a mistranslation - they just prefer to ignore the fact.

Still, in the eyes of a Jew, the best status that a non-Jew can attain is the rather dubious title of 'righteous gentile.' Can you blame the Christians for not being satisfied with this title so they took the basics of Judaism and added their own stuff to make it different to the Jews religion? Now, the Christians can tell everyone that the Jews will burn in hell for not accepting Jesus; this is a much better position to be in rather than 'righteous gentile.'

God didn't "do away with" the Old Covenant. He fulfilled it in Jesus Christ. Christians don't consign anyone to Hell, nor can we. That right belongs to God Himself, who said not to add to or take away from anything in His Holy Scriptures. He always promised He'd send a Messiah, and having that Messiah fulfill the Old Covenant and establishing a New Covenant isn't rejecting either Covenant. If you read the Old Testament of the Covenant of God, you will see that Messiah was to be a sacrifice for the sins of all men, not a socio-political Savior. Jesus, being a third-part of Who God is, came to earth in the flesh and sacrificed His Own life to fulfill the covenant God made with Adam, and clarified with Abraham. This did away with the sins of all mankind with His one sacrifice. He then raised this same Jesus from the dead, putting into place a New Covenant that includes eternal life with Him through that Jesus. All of the Law and the prophets point to Jesus. We now wait in eager anticipation of His return to claim those who are His own.

intelligent christians changed mind