Not sure how to ask this.....?

Holy Cow!! I'd start off by showing him an article from today's Kansas City Star that was about molestation by two priests over a few years time and then of course I would also send him a Google search of Roman Catholic sex scandal. Then, I'd send him a copy of the paper I did about all the Christian traditions that have Pagan roots. Then, I'd send him a list of all the Biblical translations that have been done over the years. My personal favorite is from I think the 1300s and it says Thou shall commit adultery. (I bet there was dancing in the streets) Anyway, I'd do that, but I bet I'd be wasting my time because he sounds like he doesn't want his horizons expanded. (((Zilla)))

This may sound really dry and perhaps critical, but it is not intended that way.

Molestations are a matter of record, you can probably get a reasonable stat from the web. I think the word "condones" is a bit inaccurate. I rather think the various churches try to not call attention (sweep it under the rug) to it and vainly hope that the offender will repent.

As for number of deaths, you can point to the Bible as a partial source, after all it is "true", isn't it. Not quite sure if the holocaust can be blamed on religion or just bigotry. The thing about wars, is that many use religion as an excuse, but it was not the causal reason - it certainly didn't help, However there was the inquisition, persecution of the Jews (off and on) and suppression (genocide) of heretics. Don't forget the persecution of various scientists, free thinkers, and old women (witches) that has occurred.

As for the rewriting of the Bible, I don't think you can make that one stick. Many if not all of the OT books were meticulously copied under rigid quality control. The Gospels are a bit dicier as at least two appear to be rewrites of an earlier manuscript - problems is, there is no hard evidence of this yet.

As for stealing traditions, we do know that at least three holidays and some of their traditions were "appropriated" from pagans. I would be careful about using the Zeitgeist movie as a source,, as it makes a few assertions that I haven't been able to verify. While it does seem very likely that some to much of the OT was taken from other mythologies, there isn't much hard evidence for this. Notwithstanding, there is markedly little or no evidence that verifies the Bible as actually happening.

How would I counter it? By pointing out a few facts and then backing them up and showing the answerer his error, but then the asker left himself wide-open by making some rather ridiculous claims. In short, I am not sure I would give either of them, either the one asking the question or the one offering the answer, the time of day. They both make claims that I can easily prove to be very untenable and show that they both have very closed minds. Both of them seem to have done nothing more than made up his mind that certain things are true and only one very narrow-minded view is the only tenable one without examining any evidence that what he claims may not be so true after all. Circular reasoning. If you want to make sure you miss the truth much more than you hit it, make up your mind first and then go looking for facts to back up your claims and if the facts do not really back them up, then color them so they do. As far as the asker, had he quit with "Why do humans being Intelligent beings actually believe in Christianity?" then he would have been, in my book, much more credible and I could have agreed with him and given a good answer. Among other things, had the answerer not questioned molestation of children and had he addressed the fact that Christianity is mostly a bunch of superstition, then I would have given him more credibility as well. If he were to argue that true Christianity is not responsible, then I might give him a bit more leeway.

I am not a Christian, but I will submit most of the asker's statements in additional details is B.S. And if you wish, I can prove it. I also would like to see him try to back up his claims. If he wants to bash religion, I will be glad to turn him from the ineffective amateur he now is into a pro, but after he turns pro, I will happily devour him when I point out all the fallacies in the proof and conclusions of nearly every atheist you can name.

Do you want me to here and now demolish Hitchen's claim that:

"There still remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum of servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." (god is not great, page 3)

The holes in his argument are so large I could drive a herd of elephants through them, but then again so are the claims of what passes for Christianity today. I could as easily handle "The God Delusion" or "God - The Failed Hypothesis."

In short, if you want to know the truth, then quit saying "There is no evidence" when in fact there is a superfluity of it, examine all the evidence, both for and against, and let it take you wherever it leads. When you put reigns on the truth and try to steer it your way, then you are almost certain to miss the mark, and not by just a little.

To the answerer: "Documentation" ? Do you reside on earth? Do you read newspapers? Do you talk to other people?

I would encourage the answerer to do so. Try telling someone that have been a victim of abuse (perpetrated by a person in power in a "safe" place) that the claim is "sheer idiocy". Try telling them that it won't effect the rest of their lives, their families forever. Try telling them that they were the only one that suffered. Those people and their families are your documentation. And at one time it was far to common a story in connection with the church.

Try telling the thousands that have lost their lives in the Middle East that that continuing war is not to do with religion/church!!

I would've answered with:

1. Molestation of children- run a search on any news source for catholic priests and molestation

2. A brief look at history will produce those "numbers" for you.

3. rewritten- considering it was originally in hebrew, aramaic and greek, and you're reading it in english, I think that speaks for itself. There are some words that just don't translate.

4. Stolen from judaism and pagan belief.. study judaism and egyptian, roman and celtic belief systems from 4000 bce to 1500 ce and you'll see what I'm talking about.

You couldn't possibly address my question as you've proven your ignorance with these.

Of course, you know me, Z. I'm not one to mince words with idiots like that.

seems like a question posted by a person who is starting off on the path away from christianity.

that person is now in the anger stage of the separation process and will eventually learn to examine each statement thoroughly with much evidence etc.

or not.

The problem is that, no matter how well you documented your facts, people like that would simply deny the truth of it all.

They have no rational response so they just go on the attack.

As I was saying when your first question was so pathetically deleted...

The ONLY thing I don't agree with is that Christianity has caused more wars and death than anything else. It's pretty clear to me that more deaths and wars have been caused by greed (of power or money). Christianity as we know it is only about 1700 years old. That leaves thousands of years of killing for some other reason.

Otherwise, I am inclined to agree with molestation of children, rewritten by man many times over and stealing traditions from others.

I would venture to say whoever gave the above mentioned answer has not spent much time learning the history of Christianity (or current events, either).

Edit- this just goes to show me (and probably a lot of others) how much people don't want to know the TRUTH. (Isn't that what people who believe in God are seeking?) WHY anyone would blindly follow a religion is beyond me. I believe in God. I DON'T "believe in" religion.

Answer:

I'd say:

You've given an "intellectually dishonest" answer. Instead of stating counter arguments you called mine idiocy. You know what I'm referring to but pretend you don't. If you wanted more specifics, that's not what you've said - and is said as vaguely as you say my question was.

P.S. Now I'm unblocked... :-)

On Molestation of Children:

“For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, are ALL THINGS…”(Rom. 11:36).

Yes, that includes each time a Child is molested...ALL THINGS are of God and GOD works ALL things.

“And ALL THINGS are of God…”(II Cor. 5:;18).

On rewriting the bible:

http://www.answers.com/topic/translations-and-edit...

On wars; too obvious

On stealing traditions: too many to mention