What is the true purpose of liberty?

Individual sovereignty is the basis of liberty. Liberty is a result, an effect from a cause. I get flak on this whenever I bring it up. People say, "Only governments can have sovereignty."

"Individual sovereignty was not a peculiar conceit of Thomas Jefferson: It was the common assumption of the day; ..."

http://www.friesian.com/ellis.htm

"Popular sovereignty" is the basis of our government, as delineated by Locke and others. But where do you assume the government gets its power? From the "consent of the governed." Those who are governed cannot give consent if they do not hold the primary sovereignty--since one cannot give away pieces of liberty one does not have to give. The Founders even made sure our individual sovereignty would be forever protected by guaranteeing us that we may change our form of government if we find it necessary or wise.

Liberty is necessary for the growth and health of a civilization, but that is not the reason for "granting" it. It is not "granted" at all, at least not by the government. It is granted by the people TO the government in order to "provide for the common Defence, promote the general Welfare," and to secure that same liberty for Posterity.

Hi Chantalle,

A somewhat Philosophical question.

Liberty means different things to different people.

It is often said that there are two types of liberty, positive liberty and negative liberty, or, roughly, 'freedom to...' and 'freedom from...' This, I believe, is a false and meaningless dichotomy. Liberty is a word that does not describe two things; it describes one singular thing, one single state of being. Liberty, like every word in every language, is a word that has developed out of the need for people to communicate. It is an idea that is in essence interpersonal, social.

"As Mikhail Bakunin, one of the founding fathers of modern anarchism, wrote "Man in isolation can have no liberty. Being free for man means being acknowledged considered and treated as such by another man, and by all the men around him. Liberty is therefore not a feature of isolation, not of exclusion but rather of connection."

This may at first seem to say nothing new about liberty; it doesn't give a definition of liberty that will be true and valid for all eternity and it doesn't get us any closer to such a definition. However it does remind us of a few things. It reminds us that, contrary to what many people say, liberty is not a matter of being free from people, nor is it a matter of being free to do whatever you wish regardless of the effect that it might have on other people. Liberty is only meaningful when we are free with people. Liberty only makes sense when the freedom of one person does not encroach upon the other but rather re-enforces it. Liberty is not like a cake with only so many slices to go around. It is a human, living thing that only exists in society as we create it; it is a social creation.

I could go on and on. Chantalle if you are interested in reading more on the subject then allow me to suggest the following sites;

www.apfn.org/apfn/liberty

www.whatisliberty.com

www.tysknews.com/Depts/gov_philosophy

Good luck my friend,

Cathorio.

Liberty? Has no purpose.

Whatever liberty really is, it offers persons the best possible way to be happy, by giving them room to be what they want/need to be. But "purpose" implies some direction was given by someone intelligent. Liberty is a concept, an abstract idea. It has no purpose whatsoever. But those who pursue or try to prevent liberty, THEY have some purpose in mind.

The pursuit of happiness. But remember only the pursuit is guaranteed with liberty, not actual attainment.

edit: I get thumbs down for this?

Have you ever seen the movie 'Amistad' where Siske, the de-facto leader of the blacks who were aboard the eponymous ship stands up in court (against all judicial rules) and shouts "Give us, us free!"?

He wanted his freedom, his liberty to do as he chose to do with it. In the end he was freed and he chose to go back to where he was originally from in Africa (now Liberia). He pursued his happiness although I imagine a few others who chose to stay in the US and their descendants fared better (maybe some worse) in the long run.

I'm not American or saying the pursuit of happiness is guaranteed by their constitution. I'm saying: 'liberty' is to be able to 'choose what thou wilt do in pursuit of your happiness' [And if your pursuit of happiness breaks societal moral codes, then others in that society have their right in their pursuit of happiness to prevent you from doing what is considered wrong.]

Liberty is not doing as you like, but to be ABLE to do what you OUGHT to do - to achieve the most complete expression of the best of yourself.

Today, in the U.S., it's to tax the workers out of existence and impose the American style of government via imperialistic invasions to the other peoples of the earth, whether they like this style of government or not.

Iraq and Afganistan were both monarchies and were overthrown by largely the governments that the U.S. overthrew, but they never bothered to attempt to restore the governments or style of governmemts legitimately in power before these terrorists or whatever came into power.

liberty is freedom. freedom lets things grow- all things deserve the opportunity to spend their lives growing-flowers, salamanders, sheep- to be allowed to grow and experience the world and not be oppressed by anyone else's plans for you.

Ultimate freedom

That's the true purpose.

Ya, some people don't have the freedom like we do.

Go ahead, give me thumbs down, it don't affect me one bit.

to be fair., to be disciplined.....^^