JW's: Star of Bethlehem?

Thank you all, I have found my way to question #1. Wow, this ladies are sharper than a needle! Okay, but I will still stick to what I said yesterday and that is "If satan caused that star to the *only* bright star to see in the sky, then WHY did not King Herod see it???" Only the wise men seen it. I also want to take this oppurtunity to mention about what Here I Am is talking about symbols. I don't think God sees anything wrong with symbols or people wearing symbols because God Almighty also used many symbols. Of course you can't use or wear symbol and say this is *God*. But didn't God use a copper snake and what's with all the Asherah poles His people put up. But I know the Asherah poles had to come down because the people thought it to like God. What about the Egyptians that wear the snake and the eye of Osiris. The Christians wearing the cross and the fish and yes the Jews with the Star of David. Symbols, symbols, symbols. Even so the Almond branch and the flower blossoming out from it another symbol. Symbols are very common usage in biblical days. Oh yes and another is the dove another symbol. The rod of Moses and on and on and on.

Edge, Thank you once again for your question. To address your question to Debbie, the angels certainly didn't send the shepherds to Herod first did they? No the angel that made the announcement was very clear where the baby could be found, even how he was adorned wrapped in cloths. The announcement was immediate, joyful and proud, no ambiguous star up to two years later. Please don't take this rude, that is not my intention but I would really love for you to answer why the astrologers were sent to Herod first, then Jesus? Maybe it will be addressed in your next question. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Troll: no disunity in the answers. As Edge stated himself that this is his second question, please look at his questions and answers already provided before making an uneducated statement. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~... I want to make a side note. This is the exact same situation that brought my husband to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses at 40 years of age. He was shown in his bible that the star could not have came from God. He was stunned. He wondered what other man made traditions he was following that would be displeasing to Almighty God. Everything just fell like dominoes. I ask you Edge to just read the account carefully. Use your God given sense and be very honest with yourself. What makes sense....question, question, question. You seem very intelligent but I don't think anything we say will make a difference but perhaps you can come to your own conclusion that is in unity to the scriptures.

Jesus did not say it was "his star"

The astrologers said it and how wrong they were. The star led them to Jesus in order that they would report this to Herod and Jesus would then be put to death. Who would want Jesus put to death even more than King Herod? Satan would so Satan was guiding the star and the "wise men" to Jesus.

Jehovah's angel warned them in a dream not to report back to Herod, and so they obeyed the warning, thereby saving the life of Jehovah's precious son.

LOBT

What religion were the magi? Weren't they the ones who told the king the location of Jesus and as a result every boy child age 2 and under was killed by the king's soldiers. The king was hoping that Jesus would still be among the children, but the Holy Spirit told his family to flee to Egypt.

Hello Edge,

Thank you for the question. This is a time where you really have to read the account in Matt 2:1-23 and ask yourself what truly makes sense, not stories you have been told as a little boy or songs you sung during Christmas.

In Matt 2:2 it does indeed say what you quoted but who were they talking to? To King Herod, a man that did not take to kindly to another King threating in his mind his throne. He wasn't even thinking about this threat UNTIL the Magi came because after this statement Harod in Matt 2:4 gathers his advisors and asks about this so called king. Why in the world would God send the Magi to Harod in order to alert him that this King was born.... Why?

Also, if you have access to a map the men were coming from the East driven by the unusual Star, something these men specialized in. The star sat above Harod's location for what we gather to be about 2 years THEN after alerting this wicked King of Jesus' birth in Matt 2:9 the star moved South to Bethlehem right smack dab above where Jesus was living with his earthly parents.

First: What would God gain for his Son or mankind for doing this?

Second: What would have Satan gained by doing this?

Lastly: Making the statement that this could have been just an ordinary star, well the distance from Jerusalem to Bethlehem is about 6 mi, in the direction of north to south. Yet all natural objects in the sky move from east to west due to the rotation of the earth.

Just because we all know (and he knows) that Satan is not going to be successful in his endeavors doesn't stop him from trying, does it?

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Quote "Everything that happened then, was due to God's will in order for prophesy to be fulfilled."

Once again Lisa I am not attacking you (but you probably feel like it by now) but was Judas's betrayal God's will? True it fulfilled prophesy but it was definitely not God's doing/

"True, the Son of man is going away, just as it is written concerning him, but woe to that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been finer for that man if he had not been born." - Mark 14:21

This was not an ordinary star in the heavens, it was most likely a very bright object that only the Magi could see.

Men Guided by a Star

CAN you see that bright star one of these men is pointing to? When they left Jerusalem, the star appeared. These men are from the East, and they study the stars. They believe that this new star is leading them to someone important.

When the men got to Jerusalem, they asked: ‘Where is the child who is to be king of the Jews?’ “Jews” is another name for Israelites. ‘We first saw the child’s star when we were in the East,’ the men said, ‘and we have come to worship him.’

When Herod, who is king at Jerusalem, heard about this he got upset. He did not want another king to take his place. So Herod called the chief priests and asked: ‘Where will the promised king be born?’ They answered: ‘The Bible says in Beth′le‧hem.’

So Herod called the men from the East, and said: ‘Go make a search for the young child. When you find him, let me know. I want to go and worship him too.’ But, really, Herod wanted to find the child to kill him!

Then the star moves ahead of the men to Beth′le‧hem, and it stops over the place where the child is. When the men go into the house, they find Mary and little Jesus. They bring out gifts and give them to Jesus. But later Jehovah warns the men in a dream not to go back to Herod. So they return to their own country by another road.

When Herod learns that the men from the East have left for home, he gets very angry. So he gives the command for all the boys in Beth′le‧hem two years of age and under to be killed. But Jehovah warns Joseph ahead of time in a dream, and Joseph leaves with his family for Egypt. Later, when Joseph learns that Herod has died, he takes Mary and Jesus back home to Naz′a‧reth. This is where Jesus grows up.

Who do you think made that new star to shine? Remember, the men first went to Jerusalem after seeing the star. Satan the Devil wanted to kill God’s Son, and he knew that King Herod of Jerusalem would try to kill him. So Satan is the one who must have made that star shine.

Matthew 2:1-23; Micah 5:2.

Who wanted Jesus dead?? Satan. He knew who he was and why he had come. Genesis 3:14,15 And Jehovah God proceeded to say to the serpent: “Because you have done this thing, you are the cursed one out of all the domestic animals and out of all the wild beasts of the field. Upon your belly you will go and dust is what you will eat all the days of your life. 15 And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.” Jehovah protected his son as he had to fulfill prophecy by dying as a willing, faithful man.

You must remember. There are many different stars in the Bible....Bright and morning star refers to Jesus. Rev. 22:16 as he is one of the numerous spirit sons in heaven before the creation of the material universe.....Job 38:7.

Matt. 2:2 is not spoken by Jesus or faithful servants, but by pagan priests who claimed they used astrology to find Jesus. ISLAM is the religion that sprang up later from whatever stories these Medo Persian magi (wise men or magic practicers) went back and started, not the words of Christians.

They saw his star. Deuteronomy 17:3 and 18:10-12 and others....godly followers are told NOT to follow stars and such.

Debbie

debbie22 gave the Jehovah's Witness answer.

I hope that you will consider it logically. There are several statements made which, though they might be correct, are unsupportable. For example:

1) Certainly it was not an ordinary one, since it was low enough for the astrologers to follow it for about a thousand miles [1,600 km].

Presumably (judging by the scriptural account), the star signified the birth of the next king of Judea (perhaps by its appearance within a certain constellation at a certain time). Quite naturally, the astrologers came to the palace of the king of Judea and asked to see the "new king". On hearing that there was no heir, Herod inquired and discovered that (according the Hebrew prophecy) the birth was supposed to occur in Bethlehem. Naturally, the astrologers continued on to this location. How they "followed the star" to locate a particular location within that city is not mentioned, but it is clear (logically) how the astrologers came first to Herod's palace before traveling to Bethlehem. In other words, they were following the *portents* delivered (supposedly) by the star when they arrived at Herod's palace and, later, at Bethlehem.

However, they could just as easily been following a literal star - it's direction at a certain astrological conjunction. Just because it was followed for several miles (where did 1,000 come from?) is not a basis for concluding that the star was unusual in any way.

2) Certainly no normal star could do that.

Answered above, certainly a normal star could do this very thing.

3) Since the astrologers’ visit led indirectly to the slaughter of ‘all the boys in Bethlehem and in all its districts from two years of age and under,’ is it not reasonable to conclude that “the star” was something used by God’s Adversary, Satan, in an attempt to destroy God’s Son?

The answer to this question is, quite obviously, "no". The star is not responsible for Herod's actions, nor is God, whether or not he is the one who "placed" the signal star. Using this logic, you would have to conclude that God is responsible for the human sacrifice that occurred in Native American sun worship, as God definitely *is* the creator of the sun. God is not responsible for the actions of humans who choose to do ungodly things.

4) It should also be borne in mind that the astrologers came from the East, perhaps from Babylon, which was an ancient center of magic, sorcery, and astrology.

Well, they certainly could have come from Babylon (the Persian province, not the city, which had been destroyed and abandoned several centuries prior). However, they just as easily could have come from some other eastern province of the Persian or some other empire.

5) A number of heavenly bodies have been named after Babylon’s gods.

This was common in most Mediterranean cultures, including Greek, Roman and Egyptian, and large portions of Asia east of Judea had been Hellenized.

6) In the days of King Nebuchadnezzar, divination was used to help him decide which route to take in his battle campaign.

True - and that nation had been conquered 5 centuries previous. Naturally, just because one culture is recorded in scripture as making use of astrologers does not mean that all other astrologers mentioned in scripture are necessarily from that culture.

Conclusion: I think it clear that the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine on this matter is *possible*, but that it is definitely *not* as certain as claimed. In this instance they have arrived at a conclusion based on false assumptions, not on sound scriptural reasoning.

Jim, http://www.bible-reviews.com/

“Could you tell us the origin of the ‘star of David’ or the ‘shield of David’?” The class quickly exchanged glances at one another questioningly. It was quite obvious that none of them knew the answer.

The instructor spoke up and said: “You didn’t expect to get the answer to that question here, did you?” We answered: “What more appropriate place could we go to than a Jewish synagogue for our answer, especially since the synagogue uses the symbol?” The instructor collected his thoughts and said that he did not know exactly what its origin was, but that he thought it originated with mythology and he wondered if we in our search found the same thing. We said that we did. But we found it hard to understand why the Jews would accept this pagan symbol, especially since they were strictly forbidden by Jehovah to have anything to do with pagan practices and their symbols. To this the instructor replied that he did not think that David was acquainted with the “star of David.” We agreed with him. We did not think so either. In fact, we were quite positive that David had nothing to do with it or knew anything about the symbol.

Evil? Whoa, that's what they believe?- 'The stars, in fact, were created to be used for signs, as well as "for seasons, and for days, and years" (Genesis 1:14), and if there was ever an appropriate time for a "sign," this was such a time, when God Himself became man, incarnate in human flesh, to redeem man.

The Magi were familiar both with the Jewish Scriptures and also with the primeval promises of a coming Savior, who, though He would be the Jewish Messiah, would also become the Redeemer of all people.

They surely knew the prophecy of Balaam: "... there shall come a Star out of Jacob..." (Numbers 24:17), and probably also that of Isaiah 60:3, "The Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising." They undoubtedly were familiar with Daniel's prophecy of the seventy weeks (Daniel 9:24-27), which indicated that the time for Messiah's coming was drawing near.-HMM.