Why did pagan religions seek oneness with their spiritual gods? And in Christianity, we seek restoration with?

It takes a lot of good ecstasy to see God.

Well, I'm no religion, so my beliefs are quite heathenistic, and not part of the issue.

Most people of spiritual nature want to commune with gods. Not all people wish to do this, and that is their right and place in the world. Some people exist with their heads in the clouds, and others with their feet on the ground. As long as one protects the other, all is in balance.

Some people believe that our Creator was corrupted in the act of creation, that helps to define the horrors described in what's referred to as the old testament. And angry jealous god bent on punishing it's creations for trying to find higher purpose beyond itself. Some people can not connect to that god, and instead try to find the source.

When spiritual people can not accept the creator, the universe has other options waiting for us. The universe is also in balance beyond just our earth, and the origin point was so far away, and so long ago. There are other gods on earth, and beyond it, so everyone is just looking for the deeper path.

Some people have wildly different paths then others. The strong man forces his way across a river, the quick man jumps, the intelligent man builds a bridge, and the explorer continues upstream to find a safer crossing.

Answer: I never rejected the Christian God's love, and I never felt any sense of rejection or negativity in the Christian church I was raised in. However, my Gods did speak to me and bring a sense of wholeness to my life that the Christian God never managed to do -- even when I begged him to.

I did not leave Christianity because I had ANY problem with that religion, but because of an undeniable "calling" from my Gods.

Ecstasy is not in the setting-up exercises -- a nun kneeling in a convent chapel can be in as intense an Ecstasy as any Priestess of Pan Priapus celebrating the Vernal Equinox.

answer: No, you're judging all paganism from a Christian perspective - you need to step outside your box first. Ecstasy can be used in Christianity as well - that "born again" feeling, feeling "the Holy Spirit" - that's what some in paganism feel with our deities.

No, we don't all use hypnotic chants and ceremonies (although that does sound like a religious ceremony in some Christian churches I've seen).

Get off the ecstasy - literally. Paganism is about a spiritual connection with the deities. For some of us that's reviving the religion of our ancestors.

I WAS Christian and got nothing. No offense but it wasn't for me. For 15 years I got nothing out of it except a feeling of isolation, depression, suicidal thoughts, lousy self esteem and alcoholism. I stopped trying to make it fit and left.

When I found paganism I got sober overnight and began recovering my self esteem and building it up. Your deity wasn't there for me.

Christianity works for many, for others it doesn't. It's not about drugs, sin, ecstasy or any of that nonsense (most pagans I know are lightweights or straight edge when it comes to drugs and alcohol).

What you find spiritual with your deity, we find in ours.

You believe your deity made everything - we don't. Its VERY simple - we don't believe your mythology, you don't believe ours.

I sought your G-d - he wasn't there. I didn't reject him, he never showed up.

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btw: why do you reject Odin, Zeus, Herne, Lugh, Freya, Isis, Athene and countless others? They're waiting to love you and promise a wonderful afterlife with no threats of eternal torment (unless you're a murderer or child molester)

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No, you miss all of my points. Your deity wasn't there - simple. I don't care if your deity condemns me or not. He's not part of my religion. Don't be sad, get an education about other religions instead of reading through your Christian rose-colored glasses.

Ecstacy is still a part of the Christian religion, too. Look at the people rolling on the floor and speaking in toungues. Ecstacy is a part of almost all religions, at some point. Because that's what religion is based on, feeling. And some people are easily overcome by feeling and stimulation.

And no, as a pagan, I am NOT seeking your god in my rituals. Nor am I filling in for him with a substitution. That's a very egocentric thing to imply.

Pangel, this is exactly what I expect. There are as many ways to get to spiritual unity with god(ess) as there are people who've ever existed. Each and every single person that ever existed is a unique individual, why should we all have to stuff that uniqueness down and suppress it to become automatons, worshipping in the exact same way as everyone else? It makes absolutely no sense to me at all. Deity WANTS us to find our own path, our own voice, our own way to love and befriend him/her. If it came out any other way THAT would be the most dissapointing thing of all. Brightest Blessings, Raji the Green Witch

Sorry but no. I understand your rationalizations but they are simply misguided.

The fact is that most people try to understand other cultures and religion through thier OWN little lense. You can't do that. You can't take something as complicated as an entire culture with thousands of years of practice and attempt to understand it reading two articles in National Geographic and make wild guesses on it.

What is frusterating is that you are twisting people's beliefs to prove your OWN.

Also, hate to clue you in but early Christians did a lot of what you just mentioned. Learn your own history before you pass judgement to others.

christianity is based on the pagan religions the early church attempted to destroy, which in turn were influenced by hinduism, so there are common themes in all of them. it doesn't mean that pagans are indirectly worshipping the christian god. few of us accept that god. none of us see ourselves as identical to our gods, and we did not create them to compensate for being separated from the supreme divinity; but to help us in approaching something that our minds are incapable of understanding.

in hinduism, all things are manifestations of the source of creation. this source is not seen as the creator, but the stimulus for creation. since everything is a manifestation of the source, everything is equal. we are not merely gods, we are one in the same with the source. there's no need for restoration or reconciliation, only awareness of our true nature. if you talk to pagans long enough, you will find this to be a fairly universal belief.

we haven't rejected anything and we don't need to be restored.

Etymology: from Old French extasie and Late Latin extasis, from Greek ekstasis, a derivative of the verb existanai, "displace, drive out of one's mind".

Ecstasy is subjective experience of total involvement of the subject with an object of his or her awareness. Because total involvement with an object of our interest is not our ordinary experience since we are ordinarily aware also of other objects, the ecstasy is an example of altered state of consciousness characterized by diminished awareness of other objects or total lack of the awareness of surroundings and everything around the object. For instance, if one is concentrating on a physical task, then one might cease to be aware of any intellectual thoughts.

For the duration of the ecstasy the ecstatic is out of touch with ordinary life and is capable neither of communication with other people nor of undertaking normal actions. Although the experience is usually brief in physical time (from momentary to about half an hour), there are records of such experiences lasting several days or even more, and of recurring experiences of ecstasy during one's lifetime. Subjective perception of time, space and/or self may strongly change or disappear during ecstasy.

It is used in philosophy usually to mean outside-of-itself." One's consciousness, for example, is not self-enclosed, one can be conscious of an Other person, who falls well outside of one's own self. In a sense, consciousness is usually, "outside of itself," in that its object (what it thinks about, or perceives) is not itself. This is incontrast to the term enstasis which means from standing-within-oneself which relates to contemplation from the perspective of a speculator.

Describes most religions, not just paganism.

Why do you think they do that? Most Pagans realize they are not a gods equal and never will be.