Pit Bull Enthusiasts, please talk to me!?

I'm usually also one of the folks who says Pit Bulls aren't supposed to be "human aggressive". But, by this, I mean they weren't originally bred for guard work, and a properly bred Pit Bull typically doesn't show a lot of the NATURAL wariness of strangers or tendency towards defensiveness that's seen in some of the more traditional "guard" breeds.

For instance, most Dobes will bark and growl, act defensive, and attempt to stop an intruder, even without formal bitework training. I know people, responsible Pit Bull breeders and owners, whose dogs will allow a stranger to walk right into their yard and will lick them to death with wagging tails. (On the other hand, woe to any stray dog or other animal dumb enough to enter the yard.) I have visited such a yard myself....entered the yard alone as a stranger (the owner specifically invited me to do so- to see the dogs' reaction for myself) and not a single dog reacted with even a warning bark.

Some untrained Pits may react with due aggression when their owner is in imminent danger, but few of the folks I have spoken to, with well-bred, stable Pits, have been in that situation.

I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that a dog who is growling, snarling, showing his teeth with the hair up on his back is displaying defensive-aggressive behavior, and such behavior is driven by FEAR. The dog is frightened and nervous and displays "threatening" behavior in an attempt to frighten the threat away. And ultimately, a fearful-aggressive dog is weak and easily intimidated by an attacker/agitator who doesn't back down.

Dogs trained in formal protection training must be bold, confident, dominant and stable in order to engage the helper. They are attacking with confidence and enthusiasm- partly because their training helps build the dog's confidence gradually, and partly because the dog's temperament is rock-solid and assertive to begin with. That's why you don't usually hear dogs doing protection work snarling and growling...if anything, they're barking that sharp, high-pitched bark that shows they're excited and eager to get the helper.

While Pit Bulls aren't naturally prone to that defensive, snarly-growly guarding behavior, they ARE naturally inclined to be fearless, confident, dominant and highly driven. These are the same traits that historically gave them "gameness" in the fighting ring....that instinct to keep going, never back down, enduring pain and sometimes ultimately death, without fear or weakness. These are also traits that are desirable in a dog one wishes to train in formal protection training.

So, I imagine, with the proper kind of training, a Pit Bulls' natural tendency towards gameness and assertiveness, translates nicely into formal protection work. And I know many folks have successfully trained them as such.

I speak for no one else, but personally when *I* tell folks the Pit Bull was not meant to be a guard dog, I am basically referring to the average pet owner who wishes to have a "deterrent dog"....one who will bark, growl, look nasty and possibly bite an intruder, without formal training. Certainly most folks asking questions about protective dog breeds on here, aren't looking for their next Ring prospect. :)

Hopefully I'm not way off-base on my answer here, but if I am, I guess it's just another chance to learn something! I've got basically no personal experience training a dog in personal protection work. But it's something I aspire to do one day....I have been trying to learn as much as I can for about the last 10 years LOL....one day I'll have my dream dog :)

I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what the question is, but I'm going to try and give you an answer. Dogs properly trained in protection sports have to have a drive, be it a prey drive or a food drive, if you have a dog that has a high drive you have a dog that has a chance at doing well in protection training. Any dog trained in protection training shouldn't be "human aggressive" The dog should be confident that when a situation arises that protection is needed, it can handle it. Of course this should happen when the dogs owner "tells" the dog to handle it. A human aggressive dog that just wants to bite any human, would have a hard time getting titled.

P.S. I think the "helper" or the person that is agitating the dog, could use a little more training... I don't think it looks like he's doing a stellar job. My opinion of course.

But as always... with the knowledge you have Greekman, I could be wrong :-()

I second Rachel. The dog(s) in that video are clearly engaged in a sport or game. Seems to me like Mr. G Slick found himself a pretty good gig duping a bunch of scared humans into paying him for PP training for their dogs and that he is promoting himself as a trainer of PP dogs. Although my knowledge of the subject is limited, the training he is doing with the dogs seems closer to schutzhund type sport than real PP training.

As far a s pit bulls in personal protection are concerned, I believe they are suitable dogs to train in that capacity. I do not have a clue why people who love the breed are so vocal about the breed being so non-aggressive toward humans because they seem average to me in that category.

Few people know that "Daddy" the pit bull that appears so often with Cesar Milan (but actually belongs to a rap singer) has had PP training. How do I know? There was an episode of The Dog Whisperer that included the use of a whip in a horse coral. Cesar said Daddy got very excited by the whip thinking that it was time for some PP training and Daddy had to be calmed.

Thing is all dogs have different personality and the way pit bulls are bred now they are typically a lot more human aggressive than they should be. I still think for the most part they are pretty human friendly but i also know how versatile they are and i think this breed is capable of just about anything. I think they can easily be used a guard or protection dogs

i admit, i am guilty for telling people this breed dosent make a good guard OR protection breed.

it has little to do with the breed. The truth is greekman(lol, you know) the breed makes an EXCELLENT working dog, any type of work, if the dog "has the right stuff" for that particular work.

They are SUPPOSED to be human friendly, to friendly humans. A well trained APBT is a formidable foe if you decide to break into that car or house.

the qualities we love about our breed, sleek power in a compact size, amazing grip and gameness....those qualities make for an AWESOME ppd, even patrol dog, if the dog also is stable, etc.

those are also the qualities that make some redneck or thug try and keep his "big bad pit" chained in the front yard, and bark his stupid big head off at everyone, friend or not. They encourage the dog to be aggressive, but teach no discretion.

A GSD,Mal or Dobie in the hands of a dumbass owner means a scaryass dog who is unpredictable, aggressive when it isn't called for, and probably wouldn't really ever do anything if the home did get broken into.

A APBT in those same hands would be a news story...because of it's sheer power(not that mals don't have power, but you know what i mean, haha) and the fact that it is a bulldog(bulldog=hang on no matter what)....

Personally, i tell people they don't make good guard dogs because the bully world can't afford yet ANOTHER poorly bred, weak nerved, chained up snarling pit.

A person who is truly interested in having a protection dog, and has contacted trainers and been evaluated, and is in training, they won't be on here asking if their dog can do it, cause they will already know.

that leaves some jerk who shouldn't even have a dog asking if their BYB pit, or even their american bully(how laughable, that pig can't work) will "protect them".

those people engage in self taught "protection work"...i.e biting with no ob or anything...they stand around in their front yards with a poorly made "bite suit" (i.e tons of winter coats), and they are just asking to be mauled....

so you see....it's not that our breed doesn't actually make a good "guard" dog....

like ANY working breed, a well bred, properly trained dog makes an excellent working dog. I have seen Aussies and cattle dogs do some impressive bite work....

but i seriouslyy doubt these people have well bred, sound working dogs.

I'm sure that a Pit would be a candidate WITH the proper training, but I do not believe they are naturally human aggressive. However, from my experience APBT's are loyal and intelligent and therefore posses the ability to be trained in protection, as they want to please their masters.

I did not like the method of the guy training however. Besides, how many of us have a stick or police baton to beat off an attacking dog.

To quote:

"the pit bull type breeds do not make good guard/personal protection dogs because they are not "human aggressive"

I'm confused about this - don't protection dogs need to have high pack, fight and prey drives, not be "human aggressive"? In my opinion, no dog should be human aggressive - if it is, it needs to be euthanized. Protection dogs go after humans because they have been trained to - not because of human aggressiveness. Of course, you will correct me if I'm mistaken, right Greekman??

Add: okay - so there needs to be human aggression? But how do you control it? Is there a difference between dominance, combined with all the drives mentioned, and human aggression?

While I have zero experience with personal protection training, I've heard of many breeds excelling at it who aren't known to possess this strength. Based on my limited knowledge of Pit Bulls, they are not a breed who is inherently human aggressive. Therefore, they can't be expected to act on such an instinct in the absence of training. However, in the hands of a knowledgeable personal protection trainer they certainly can be trained. I've even seen Siberian Huskies who have been successfully trained in personal protection and I never thought I'd see that day.

Whenever I hear people advise other pet owners against seeking a breed based on its instinct to guard or protect, I'm always under the assumption that they're referring to an individual dog's behavior in the absence of specialized training. I know several Golden Retriever owners, and happen to be one, whose dogs have proven themselves to be much more instinctively protective than would be expected of the breed. My dog has put himself between me and a perceived threat on multiple occasions.

Another objective Pit Bull enthusiasts may be pursuing is to refute the general public's misconception of the breed's aggression towards humans. While the breed is in fact quite reliable among people, that doesn't mean they can't perceive a potential threat. They can also have a tremendous prey drive. A dog with high prey drive can be trained in protection without being relentlessly human aggressive.

I am always a bit intimidated to answer your questions because I always get thumbs downed...but, I will take a chance anyway.

I think that Pits aren't by nature human agressive...but like any dog used in protection, with extensive training by the right person, he could absolutley be used for protection and guarding.

I'm a little late to the party, but hell, I'll take a crack at it.

The guy is wearing a bite suit....the dog goes right for the sleeve. Judging by the posture of the dog (mind you, I could be wrong) this dog is not in fear of his life or the life of his owner/handler....he's playing a game. After the release, the dog looks up, tail wagging, eager for more. It's play. Of course, it takes a certain gameness and tenacity to hold on the way that dog did and still come back for more, but that's what a pit bull is bred for anyway: For gameness, determination, and an eagerness to please. I don't feel this had anything to do with protective instincts....and honestly, I'm not impressed by G-Slick ( LMFAO)