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Duke
Lv 7
Duke asked in Science & MathematicsMathematics · 1 decade ago

Two Geometric Problems with Elegant Solutions?

A question about some problems with elegant solutions was asked recently:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=An0DE...

Encouraging further discussion on this fascinating subject, started by Ana, I decided to repost 2 problems despite the fact I know the solutions - they fully deserve it, I'm sure Y!A Math Community will like them very much. Enjoy!

1) Let P is an arbitrary point in space. How many rays, starting at P exist, with the property: the angle between any 2 of them is the same? Prove that the maximal number is 4.

2) Consider all octahedrons, circumscribed around the unit sphere. Prove that the regular octahedron (one of the Platonian Solids) IS NOT the polyhedron with the minimal volume among them.

The most elegant (or most neatly presented in my opinion) answer will be chosen as best, I am not going to put this into vote. Additional Details immediately follow.

Update:

1) Answer:

1-dimensional space (linear case): 1+1 = 2 rays;

angle between them arccos(-1/1) = π;

2-dimensional space (planar case): 2+1 = 3 rays;

angle between any 2 of them arccos(-1/2) = 2π/3 ("Mercedes" configuration at P);

3-dimensional space: 3+1 = 4 rays, connecting the centroid of the regular tetrahedron with its vertexes;

angle between any 2 of them arccos(-1/3) ≈ 110°;

Why 4 and not more? That is the question.

2) What polygon with given number of sides (e.g. 8), circumscribed around the unit circle, has the smallest possible area? The answer is well-known and almost obvious - the regular one (e.g. the regular octagon among all octagons). Quite surprisingly the analogy between 2D and 3D cases is misleading here - if a regular polyhedron with given number of faces (e.g. 8) exists, it is not necessarily optimal in similar sense!

Update 2:

Good start by A Cave! Everybody feel free to submit here more problems with elegant solutions instead of answering if You wish!

Update 3:

Zeta, You are on the right track about 2). Keep trying to find! Look here:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3004/2802617542_794...

Update 4:

Using the relationship for every circumscribed polyhedron:

3 * Volume = Surface_area * Inscribed_sphere_radius

can be shown that Problem 2) is equivalent to the noteworthy Isoperimetrical Problem for Polyhedrons: what polyhedron with given number F of faces and a given constant surface area has the greatest volume? Unlike the planar case (with perimeter and area involved) where the optimal solution is always a regular polygon, the latter always better than any irregular one with the same number of sides, in the 3D case we can have irregular polyhedrons (#2 and #3 on the picture for F=8), isoperimetrically equivalent (and even better are possible!) to the regular ones! It turns out that only Platonian Solids with trihedral vertexes yield optimal solutions for F=4, F=6 and F=12.

Update 5:

It's time for the solutions that I know.

1) Mark the points exactly as in A Cave's solution. What A Cave has written below can be explained with other words like this: the marked points are vertexes of a regular polyhedron (Platonic Solid). If the rays were 5, we would have an example of a regular polyhedron with 5 vertexes, but such polyhedron DOES NOT EXIST!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_solid

If the rays were even more, removing some of them we would reduce to the 5-rays configuration - impossible, as we have just seen already.

2) This is one of my favorite visual ("Look and See") proofs. Circumscribe a regular octahedron around the unit sphere, then follow this link and watch what happens:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24472398@N06/27953451...

Operation 3 DECREMENTS THE VOLUME from 4√3 ≈ 6.928 to 16√3(3√2-4) ≈ 6.72!

Update 6:

Here is some more information about this irregular octahedron, isoperimetically better then the regular one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragonal_trapezohed...

It is still not the optimal octahedron - M. Goldberg has found an example of the same topological type as #3 (on the first picture): 4 pentagonal and 4 quadrilateral faces, volume ≈ 6.7009. As far as I know, this very difficult isoperimetrical problem for polyhedrons (especially the case F=8) is still awaiting its final solution.

3 Answers

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  • 1 decade ago
    Favorite Answer

    1) Consider a unit sphere with the center in P. Mark the points of its intersections with the rays. Note that the distance between any two marked points is fixed because its the third side of a triangle with two unit side and a fixed angle between them, let's denote it R. Restating the same thing we say that on a sphere with center in any marked point of radius R lie all the other points, so now we are to maximize the number of such spheres. Taking three of these spheres with three corresponding marked points we notice that they have only 2 common points with the distance between them more than R (equal to Sqrt(8/3)*R), so only one of them can be in the construction with no more than 4 totally.

  • 1 decade ago

    For problem number 1, in planar case, say we have k rays r_1, r_2, .. r_k. Let's call the angle between any two of them phi. Start with r_1, and we put r_2 phi apart from it. The rest of the rays r_3, r_4, ... all are same angle away from r_1 and r_2. But there is only one ray with such property which proves r_3, r_4, ... all overlap in one ray. Similarly in three dimensions, start with r_1 and place r_2 phi away. This forces you to place r_3 phi away from both to form a tripod. Now r_4, r_5, .. r_k should all be phi away from the three. But this only happens when all of them collapse in one ray, because there is only one ray with equal angle to each of the three rays. Therefore maximum is 4.

    Problem two will be solved if we can find an example of such octahedron. Because of symmetry of the regular octahedron, we know its inscribed sphere should have its center at the geometrical center of the regular octahedron. Here is the best picture I could draw:

    http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3360/octahedron...

    Also because of symmetry, we can show the unit sphere will touch each face on its perpendicular bisector. These are the red lines in the picture. Then OC = 1 because it's a unit sphere. Let's say the sides of the octahedron is a. AB = sqrt(3)/2 a and OA = sqr(2)/2 a. Then 2* area of AOB = OB*AO = a/2 * sqrt(2)/2 a= a² sqrt(2)/4 = OC*AB = 1 * sqrt(3)/2 a. a = sqrt(6). Then Volume of the regular octahedron is given by (1/3) sqrt(2) a^3 = 4sqrt(3) ~ 6.9. I have tried to inscribe the sphere in a "hexagon tower" whatever it's called but it gave me the exact same volume 4 sqrt(3)!

    I'm still thinking how to reduce this volume. I'll update my answer. If you find any errors please let me know.

    By the way, if you want elegance and neatless see Zo Maar's answer here:http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AjyDH... I always learn from him.

    EDIT: Wow so you found more 4sqrt(3)'s!

    EDIT: 3 * Volume = Surface_area * Inscribed_sphere_radius

    Am I the only one that doesn't see why?! It is a neat formula/theorem. Does it have a name or proof? Using it things would be a bit simpler. See, the problem with "non-standard" octahedrons is that the computation of their volume gets messy.

  • 5 years ago

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