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Trinitarians... believe that Jehovah is God (or the trinity) but..?
why does the Bible say something differently?
Deuteronomy 32:5-6
5 They have acted ruinously on their own part;
They are not his children, the defect is their own.
A generation crooked and twisted!
6 Is it to Jehovah that YOU keep doing this way,
O people stupid and not wise?
Is he not your Father who has produced you,
He who made you and proceeded to give you stability?
If Jesus is Jehovah based on the trinity doctrine, why does the scriptures say he is the Father only and not the trinity? No where in the scriptures does it call him the son
Further, you have the father saying something.
Deuteronomy 32:39
39 SEE now that I—I am he
And there are no gods together with me.
I put to death, and I make alive.
I have severely wounded, and I—I will heal,
And there is no one snatching out of my hand.
The Father declares that there is no God besides him.
Please, comment on these scriptures and do not ignore the question.
Fireball, Matthew 28:19 doesn't say anything about the trinity. People are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit because we have to recognize all three.
The Apostle, the main part of that verse wasn't even written by John, it didn't appear until the 4th C.
Mike Matney, the word God did not appear in the original text. Go look it up.
Intelligent Beliefs, no and you didn't even read the verse. It doesn't say there is one god, it says that Jehovah is the Father and that he is the only God. You took the meaning out of context. John 1:1-3 is also translated in most Bible. To prove, look at John 1:18 where john states that no one has seen God, a statement made right after he saw Jesus
Suzanne: YPA, your Biblical knowledge is totally flawed. Jehovah was actually talking about Idols in verse 39. If you look at actual Hebrew, the word Elohim can apply to angels judges and so forth, so if you are saying there are no Elohim at all before him that would be false.
Jehu means Jehovah is he, so is he God? See how your logic falls apart just like the trinity doctrine :)
Oh yeah, you put trinitarian words (apostate early Christians) above the word of God. How nice. Their words aren't inspired of God, its inspired of men based on false doctrines.
I quote
Suzanne: YPA - "1) You've quoted Deut. 32:5-6 out of context. Deut. 31:26-27 tells us that Moses was referencing (and prophesying about) the JEWS, not future Christians."
I took the scripture out of context? Oh, seriously. You could have come up with a better argument with that. I didn't talk about what he was referring to, I'm talking about the statement he made.
Eva B, I'm not trolling and it seems like you don't actually know what trolling is. I'm also not being rude, I'm just asking questions so that trinitarians can see contradicts in their doctrines. I don't see you doing this towards people who attack Witnesses. You seem kinda bias to me.
Grey Tower, I have had the trinity explained to me, and I know its false. What you see here and in my other post are contradicts in the scriptures about those beliefs. I know what the scriptures are talking about yet what you guys say isn't found anywhere in the Bible.
No trinitarian is actually answering my question, they're just commenting on the meaning of the scripture, which I already know.
....But what I want you guys to do is to comment on my question on why Jehovah said he is the Father and there is no God besides him.
Suzanne: YPA, Yeah and trinitarians and believers of traid gods were also alive too.
I know what was written and the meaning of it, however, that is not why I quoted the verse, I'm talking about the statement he made.
The saying "I—I am he" is the Father. And saying there are no gods before me is talking about idols or false gods.
So am I'm blind? No. You can't even support your doctrine with scripture.
Intelligent Beliefs, if you really knew greek, you will know that Word was God isn't the only way that I can be translated. You clearly ignored the grammar of the Greek if you believe that.
to "Jesus is God", it does appear in Greek.
Jesus is God, it doesn't appear in the later copies but the copies aren't the original. Matthew was written in Hebrew, and YHWH di appear in the text. Do some more research.
Intelligent Beliefs, Its not wrong. If you didn't know the Hebrew version of Matthew (which it was originally written in) had Jehovah's name in there.
"It was the Christians who replaced the Tetragrammaton by kyrios, when the divine name written in Hebrew letters was not understood any more.”
The Cairo Geniza, Oxford, 1959, p. 222.
Why was the name removed from the Christian Greek Scriptures and of the Old LXX when the name was not understood anymore? Based on the facts, the early apostate "Christians" have been known to alter the text.
to "Jesus is God"
I read the Bible without the Watch Tower, so you're basically speaking from ignorance and making a opinion out of nothing.
You cannot say it wasn't written in Hebrew because the site you provided only offered opinions and not facts, but the facts we hold today prove that it was written in another language other than Greek.
I don't blindly accept the WT thinking, I accept that of the bible.
Just to show how you and Suzanne have no clue of what you're talking about, the original Greek words of thoes and the Hebrew word Elohim for God doesn't mean God Almighty or a false God.
The use of thoes in John 1:1 expresses a quality of a being, but not the identity, and thats why its a indefinite noun. If you bother reading 1Cor. 8:5,6, you will see that Paul makes it clear that there are many Gods. Another way Elohim can be translated is angels judges ect. making it clear that men and spirit creatures were given the Title God.
Suzanne: YPA, your arguement is pretty flat, and you have been proven to provide false information before.
Now, let me ask you a simple question: Why does Lord or God appear when the NT QUOTES the OT?
“Matthew collected the oracles in the Hebrew language”
(The Ecclesiastical History, III, XXXIX, 16).
"Matthew, also called Levi, apostle and aforetimes publican, composed a gospel of Christ at first published in Judea in Hebrew for the sake of those of the circumcision who believed, but this was afterwards translated into Greek though by what author is uncertain. The Hebrew itself has been preserved until the present day in the library at Caesarea which Pamphilus so diligently gathered. - De Viris Illustribus
Origen (Eusebius, H.E. 6.25.4)
"As having learnt by tradition concerning the four Gospels, which alone are unquestionable in the Church of God under heaven, that first was written according to Matthew, who was once a tax collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, who published it for those who from Judaism came to believe, composed as it was in the Hebrew language."
Eusebius, H.E. 3.24.6
"Matthew had first preached to Hebrews, and when he was on the point of going to others he transmitted in writing in his native language the Gospel according to himself, and thus supplied by writing the lack of his own presence to those from whom he was sent."
Mom2ThreeAngels
I'm not asking people to explain the Trinity doctrine to me, I'm asking them to answer my question, which no trinitarian has. This is typically what trinitarians to. I'm calm and have no reason to get angry. But, seriously, why do Trinitarians always ignore questions and only go back to scriptures they use to support their doctrine (which are taken out of context BTW).
Jesus is God, based on your post, you don't really know scriptures.
1) First of all, not all Bible translate Exodus to I AM that I AM, and many other translations translate this verse in Exodus to I will be or i shall prove to be.
John 8:24 - Taken out of context. Jesus simply said "unless you believe that I am who I claim to be", which means he claims to be the son of God, which is who he is. I AM is not a title.
John 8:58 - Is misunderstood and also mistranslated in many Bible. Also, not all bibles translate this verse to I AM. Jesus mae a response to the Jews about his age/pre-human existence. He basically told them he was present when Abraham was alive, something the Jews didn't know about Jesus (or really understand for that matter).
The Bible-An American Translation-E.Goodspeed(NT): "I existed"
The Unvarnished New Testament-A.Gaus: "I have already been"
The Authentic New Testament-H.J.Schonfield: "I existed"
The Complete Gospels-R.J.Miller(Editor): "I existed
Few of many
20 Answers
- Anonymous1 decade agoFavorite Answer
they cant and they wont because they will only come up w/
hum-a-nah; hum-a-nah. cuz the are deep! in the apostasy!!
they do not stick to the scriptures in any way, shape, nor can any form of truth be found in them.
satan has blinded them, they r deceived.
i read the scriptures.
i know what time it is.
they do not.
Jesus called ppl like that workers of lawlessness.
i like what tony stark said....good 1, tony!!
- 1 decade ago
I imagine you have heard that the Trinity doctrine teaches that there is one God...
this is consistent with both of these passages.
nowhere here does God discount that He is the Father and the Son and the Spirit.
We would agree completely that Jehovah is Father and that He is the Son and the Spirit as well.
So, a passage that teaches that there is one God is a passage that doesn't change the doctrine of the Trinity at all. We believe that there is one God.
What do you think of John 1:1-3
EDIT - to not jump all over the place I will only deal with the passages you brought up and John 1:1-3
Simply... God calls Himself the Father... this doesn't exclude Him from being anything else it merely states something about Him... I am a son, I can also be a brother, a husband, and employee, etc.
You basically add the word "only" while you are reading it.
The Son is not viewed as a seperate god... that would be blasphemy to us.
As for John 1:1-3
--- there are MANY articles on this from both Christian and secular scholars, the language from ANY manuscript declares that "the Word was with God and the Word was God"
- I, myself, have studied the Greek and it is undeniable. This is why the Jehovah's Witnesses needed to come up with a new translation, to doctor up passages that disagree with them. I know you don't have that motive, but the editors of your New World Translation obviously did. It is not good scholarship. Whereas the men who translated the King James Version (though it is not the only good translation out there) were highly reputable Greek and Hebrew scholars who have won the admiration of Christian and secular linguists alike.
EDIT - I really know Greek, though I do not rest on my own understanding of the language, this is a well researched passage that linguists agree upon... if you did know Greek you wouldn't make such a false claim. "theos" is the word for God in the Greek, and it is in that verse the same number of times it is in the english versions...
The New World Translation says that the "word was a god", this is not the wording of ANY of the available manuscripts. This is not a new issue, only the JW's believe otherwise, and it is for religious reasons not linguistic ones. Only if you knew just enough Greek to be confused could you get that translation. Or if you had another agenda.
EDIT - I mean NO disrespect... but the idea that the term Jehovah is in the New Testament is wrong. It is a completely unique Hebrew idea, even in the Old Testament it is only four letters long, the equivelant of YHWH. But in the New Testament their is never a Greek word used that means Jehovah.
The Greek words that may have been translated Jehovah in the NWT are "theos" - which simply means God, we get the word theology from it. and "kurios" which means lord, and it is used both for God and for Christ and for people, context determines the power of the title (just like our common use of the word lord).
- 1 decade ago
Click here: Stop a second. Take a breath... Listen... People have been giving you scriptures that back up what they are saying and you are acting like they are not answering your question. They have answered you you are not listening...
I understand what you are saying I used to have the same belief system as you. What you are doing is taking one scripture and ignoring all the others If we really should do that then I will take John 1:1 Where it says Jesus is God.
Ignore the rest of the bible.
See how your arguing is not working?
You cannot see the truth until you stop reading all the publications and start reading Gods word. That is when everything became clear to me. I know you don't believe me I pray that you will listen but I know you won't like I said I was you and when someone tried to say I was wrong I got defensive.
Gods word is all we need it is inspired of God and the ONLY thing that He has given us to know what He wants or expects from us.
When I read you say that everyone is taking texts out of context it really makes me remember. How come you aren't taking texts out of context? But every scripture someone brings up is wrong?
You are misunderstanding the trinity you are looking at the trinity the way the watchtower wants you to and you have it wrong.
I remember they used to tell me that the trinity was a being with 3 heads...UGH NO that is not what He is. God is 3 distinct beings that make up ONE God.
God the Father God the Son and God the Spirit
You will probably never understand the trinity while you are in that organization so it will not do you any good to try to debate it.
I understand what you believe I have been there I believed it... I also understand the true trinity and having seen it both ways I wish I could help you but only God can do that.
Pray for Him to show you the truth leave your books alone for a couple weeks and study God alone (Bible) just YOU and Him and see if anything happens.
Go with God
Dawn :)
BTW There is ONLY ONE GOD but 3 parts make Him up like men have body, soul and spirit ...3 parts ONE man.
One more thing refering to the Spirit as "it" Is very much a sin and a big one!! Even Jesus calls the Spirit He. Please stop calling Him a force.. John 16:7-15
Edit:
I did answer your question you are not listening to me there is ONLY ONE GOD that is fact. Trinitarians DO NOT belive there are 3 Gods only ONE God that is why He says He is the ONLY GOd there is only ONE
I don't know why you can't see that. I do not claim that there are 3 Gods rather One God with 3 parts like I said as a man has body soul and spirit God is Father, Son and Spirit
I am still praying for you...
Love,
Dawn
- ?Lv 61 decade ago
The trinity doctrine does not say that Jesus is Jehovah. The trinity doctrine says that Jesus, Jehovah, and the Holy Spirit are of the same essence and make up one God.
It is abundantly clear in the Bible that there is only one God. We have to believe that. It is also shown that Jesus is God. It's the only thing that makes sense.
We can't just pick and choose scriptures. It's got to be taken together.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
P.S. Not convinced yet? Please look at these also:
do you know what kind of "a god" the Bible says Jesus was? That's an interesting study.
Mighty God...
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
God with us...
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
LORD of our righteousness
Jeremiah 23:5-6 "The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land. (6) In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness.
Who bought the church of God with His own blood? God did.
Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
Has the nature of God...
Philippians 2:6-8 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, (7) but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. (8) And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross!
Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
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- Anonymous1 decade ago
First of all, why does the NWT add the name "Jehovah" throughout the New Testament when it was never there in the Greek? The word the NWT translated in the New Testament to Jehovah was Kurios. HWHY is found no where in the New Testament! So why do the Jehovah's Witnesses have it added to their translation??
Secondly, read 1 Peter 1:1 - "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our GOD AND SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST..."
Do you see that..."God and Savior, Jesus Christ." Jesus Christ IS God! God the Father is God. Jesus Christ is God. The Holy Spirit is God. They all make up ONE GOD! Not three...one God!
Let me quote one other verse for you. Because you are teaching that Jesus is not God, then you will be dealt with accordingly before the throne!
Galatians 1:6-9 - "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!"
Oh, and one last point. Salvation is a gift from Christ alone! It is only by His grace that we are truely saved. Salvation is NOT earned by works. Again, it is by God's GRACE alone!
Romans 3:23-24 - "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a GIFT by His GRACE through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus."
Source(s): No, it doesn't! Go to http://bible.crosswalk.com/InterlinearBible/ Type in HWHY in the Search for box. In the next drop down, put it on New Testament, then hit search. I guarantee that HWHY does NOT show up anywhere in the New Testament! If you are so sure of that, then prove it! What's your source? Watchtower? And here's my research: http://www.bible.ca/jw-YHWH-hebrew-matthew.htm Why don't you read the Bible yourself and get your nose out of that Watchtower! You don't need that magazine to understand the Bible! Things are quite clear when you JUST read the Bible! ===EDIT=== Click Here, did you really open that link I posted? Did you really read the material? Doubtful...because you are not considerate at all of reading what people actually post! OK, Matthew was NOT written in Hebrew. But, only for the sake are arguement, let's say it was. What about the rest of the New Testament? Where does HWHY or Jehovah actually appear in the New Testament? No where! All of the book of the New Testament are consistent with each other. The name "Jehovah" never appears! You are simply blindly following the Watchtower. Follow the Bible alone! And one last point...pay attention here! You stated, "The Father declares that there is no God besides him." So what does that say to the NWT version of John 1:1, where the Word is described to be "a God." Doesn't this contradict Scripture?!?! But, in fact, if the WORD IS GOD, then this does not contradict scripture at all! Do you understand that? Or are you going to blindly accept the Watchtower thinking? ===EDIT #2=== Please look at the answer from Suzanne YPA about the Matthew and Hebrew thing. It would've been my exact answer. OK...here's an answer to your question. Let's make this a "math" problem. Let's say that Y=G. Let's also say that J=G. Therefore, wouldn't Y=J? Yes! Using that, check this out... Throughout the Bible, names of Yahweh (Father) were commonly used of Jesus. Please check out this list. First I will list a name, followed when it's used for Yahweh (Father), then when it's used for Jesus. Yahweh (I AM) Used by Yahweh: Exodus 3:14, Deuteronomy 32:39, Isaiah 43:10 Used by Jesus: John 8:24, John 8:58, John 18:4-6 God Used by Yahweh: Genesis 1:1, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 45:6,7 Used by Jesus: Isaiah 7:14; 9:6, John 1:1,14, John 20:28, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1 Alpha and Omega (First and Last): Used by Yahweh: Isaiah 41:4, Isaiah 48:12, Revelation 1:8 Used by Jesus: Revelation 1:17, 18, Revelation 2:8, Revelation 22:12-16 Lord Used by Yahweh: Isaiah 45:23 Used by Jesus: Matthew 12:8, Acts 7:59-60, Acts 10:36, Romans 10:12, 1 Corinthians 2:8, 1 Corinthians 12:3, Philippinas 2:10-11 Savior Used by Yahweh: Isaiah 43:3, Isaiah 43:11, Isaiah 63:8, Luke 1:47, 1 Timothy 4:10 Used by Jesus: Matthew 1:21, Luke 2:11, John 1:29, John 4:24, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 5:9 King Used by Yahweh: Psalm 95:3, Isaiah 43:15, 1 Timothy 6:14-16 Used by Jesus: Revelation 17:14, Revelation 19:16 Judge: Used by Yahweh: Genesis 18:25, Psalm 50:4,6, Psalm 96:13, Romans 14:10 Used by Jesus: John 5:22, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Timothy 4:1 Light Used by Yahweh: 2 Samuel 22:29, Psalm 27:1, Isaiah 42:6 Used by Jesus: John 1:4,9, John 3:19, John 8:12, John 9:5 Creator: Used by Yahweh: Genesis 1:1, Job 33:4, Psalm 95:5-6, Psalm 102:25-26, Isaiah 40:28 Used by Jesus: John 1:2-3, 10, Colossians 1:15-18, Hebrews 1:1-3, 10 Forgiver of Sin Used by Yahweh: Exodus 34:6-7, Deuteronomy 32:39, 1 Samuel 2:6, Psalm 36:9 Used by Jesus: Mark 2:1-12, Acts 26:18, Colossians 2:13, Colossians 3:13 Receiver of Worship Used by Yahweh: Matthew 4:10, John 4:24, Revelation 5:14, Revelation 7:11, Revelation 11:16 Used by Jesus: Matthew 14:33, Matthew 28:9, John 9:38, Philippians 2:10-11, Hebrews 1:6 Preexistent: Used by Yahweh: Genesis 1:1 Used by Jesus: John 1:15, 30, John 3:13, 31-32, John 6:62, John 16:28, John 17:5. As you can see from this list, there are several times where a name Yahweh has given Himself, Jesus Christ also gave Himself! Based on that math formula, and all of the scriptures, aren't the two the same? Come on man, the evidence is there! Why are you refusing to believe / see it? ===EDIT #3=== Ok <Click Here>, you accuse me and every other person on here of taking Scripture out of context. We have all offered proof that Jesus Christ is God, and you come back with flimsy arguements. I stated that HWHY is not in the New Testament, and you come back and say that Matthew was written originally in Hebrew. We show how that theory is incorrect, and you come back with another lame excuse! In reading your response from John 1:1, it is so obvious to me that you are getting all of your responses from the Watchtower. That is a classic Watchtower response to that passage. I'm sure if I look at the rest of your statement, I will find much of the same. Why do you trust the Watchtower so much? Is it because they have you brainwashed that only they can interpret scripture? Are you really ready to place your eternal salvation on the Watchtower and their teachings? Are you really going to blindly accept what they teach? I hate to say this, but are you really that brainwashed? With that, I will offer this rebuttal to your John 1:1 statement about definate and indefinate articles. If you wish to continue this conversation, then please email me. I'd be happy to talk further with you. Here's a long quote from this website: http://www.hcm2.org/studies/essentials/trinity/und... "Another common confusion in John 1:1 comes from the fact that in Greek there is no definite article in front of the word 'God' ('theos') in the phrase 'and the Word was God'. The confusion arises from an assumption that if there is no definite article in the Greek, then it must have an indefinite meaning and thus should be translated with the indefinite article "a". Based on this understanding, some argue that this phrase in John 1:1 should be translated "the word was a god," rather than "the word was God." It is important at this point to understand that the Greek language has a definite article ('the'), but does not have an indefinite article ('a' or 'an'). In certain instances, when the Greek omits a definite article, it may be appropriate to insert an indefinite article for the sake of the English translation and understanding. But we cannot assume that this is always appropriate. Greek does not operate in the same way as English does in regard to the use of the words 'the' and 'a'. In many instances in which English would not include the word 'the', the Greek text includes it. (We don't see it in the English translations because it would sound non-sensible in our language.) And in many cases where the Greek omits the definite article, the English translation requires it to convey the correct meaning of the Greek. Therefore it cannot be assumed that if the definite article is absent, then an indefinite article should be inserted. (For a clear illustration of this, see an example of the use of the word 'God' and the definite article in John chapter one.) Furthermore, even though the Greek language does not have an 'indefinite article' like we think of in English, there is a way in Greek for the writer to indicate the indefinite idea and thus avoid confusion. This is done in Greek by using the Greek indefinite pronoun 'tis'. In John 1:1 there is no definite article in front of the word 'God' in the phrase, 'and the Word was God'. However, in this instance, it cannot just be assumed that the word 'God' is meant to be 'indefinite', and therefore an indefinite article used in the English translation. Because the first use of the word 'God' in John 1:1 ('the Word was with God') clearly refers to the Only True God, the Eternal Pre-existent Creator, more than likely John would have used a different Greek construction than he did if he had meant for this next phrase ('and the Word was God') to refer to a 'lesser' god, and did not want us to confuse this with the True God he had just mentioned. If John meant to avoid confusion, when making such a definitive statement, he could have done so by using this 'indefinite pronoun' ('tis') as an adjective. This would have made it clear that the Word was 'a certain god', but not the one he was just referring to. For examples of this, see the verses Mark 14:51, Luke 8:27, Luke 1:5, and Luke 11:1 (among many, many other examples). So, it seems that by the Greek grammatical structure in this statement, John is indicating that the Word (Jesus Christ - John 1:14) is the same essence and nature as God the Father." - 1 decade ago
There are several great scriptures that show that Jesus and God are two different individuals. One of my personal favorites is John 14:28:
28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
The Trinity doctrine teaches that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all the same and are all equal, but Jesus himself said that the "the Father is greater than I am", meaning they are NOT equal. Another good scripture is 1 Corinthians 11:3:
3 But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.
If the "head of Christ is God", again, they cannot be equal.
- ?Lv 71 decade ago
Well, yes, there is no basis for the Trinity in the Tanakh (the Hebrew scriptures).
The notion of the Trinity was coined to explain how we can believe in one God (the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, in fact), and also believe that Jesus of Nazareth was also God, incarnate (and teaching about and praying to the Father), and also accept the Holy Spirit as God. The simple answer is that there is no reason God should be subject to the same limits as, say, my mother-in-law; God may become manifest to us at different times in different ways. (There are a couple of appearances in Genesis worthy of note in that respect.)
But that debate over the relationship of Jesus to God didn't happen until the fourth century CE, and of course the Tanakh was written long before the first century, so it could not possibly express such a doctrine. Do you look for a copy of the Ten Commandments in Genesis? No, it would be out of place there.
We do agree that there is one God and no other besides him. The Trinity does not deny it. The most Trinitarian of the Christian creeds emphasizes that, though there are three Persons, there is but one God.
Source(s): So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. -- the Athanasian Creed (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02033b.htm) - TommiecatLv 71 decade ago
Your scripture references are in Deuteronomy. Jesus had not been born at that time but there is a hint of prophecy of Jesus when in Genesis Abraham is asked by god to sacrifice his son Isaac. Then if Abraham could love God enough to sacrifice his son then God loves us enough to sacrifice his son (God's son)
I have yet found anyone that doesn't believe in the trinity to explain this scripture to me
Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
How can Christ make intercession for us if he is not next to the father
- Israel-1Lv 61 decade ago
Let the scriptures speak. Will you read ? And listen ?
Isaiah 44:6 ....... Thus saith the Lord, the King of Israel, and his redeemer, the Lord of hosts ; I Am the first, and I Am the last ; and beside Me there is no God .
Revelation 1:8 ....... I Am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come : the Almighty.
Isaiah 48:12 ....... Hearken unto Me, O Jacob and Israel, My called: I Am He ; I Am the first, I also am the last.
Revelation 1:17 ....... And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me , Fear not ; I Am the first and the last.
Revelation 2:8 ....... And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write ; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive.
Revelation 22:13 ....... I Am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Hebrews 1:8 ....... But unto the Son, He saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.
Genesis 1:1 ....... In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
John 1:1-3 ....... In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him ; and without Him was not anything made that was made.
John 1:14 ....... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jeremiah 32:17 ....... Ah, Lord God ! Behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee.
John 1:10 ....... He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world know Him not.
Job 33:4 ....... The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
John 14:15-18 ....... If ye love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever ; The Spirit of Truth ; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him : But ye know Him ; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless : I will come to you.
John 14:23-26 ....... Jesus answered and said unto him : If a man love Me, he will keep My words : and My Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him. He that loveth Me not keepeth not My sayings : and the Word which ye hear is not mine, but the Fathers, which sent Me. These things have I spoken unto you being yet present with you, But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 14:6 ....... Jesus saith unto Him, I Am the way, the Truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me. If ye had known Me, ye should have known My Father also : and from henceforth ye know Him, AND HAVE SEEN Him.
Isaiah 40:28 ....... Hast thou not known Hast thou not heard that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary There is no searching of His understanding.
Colossians 1:12-19 ....... Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light : Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son : In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins : Who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature : For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers : all things were created by Him, and for Him : and He is before all things and by Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church : who is the beginning, the first born from the dead ; that in all things He might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell.
Colossians 2:8-10 ....... Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ ; For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead, bodily. And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power .
Isaiah 43:3 ....... For I Am the Lord thy God,, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour.
Source(s): Hosea 13:4 ....... Yet I Am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but Me : for there is no Saviour beside Me. Isaiah 45:21-23 ....... Tell ye, and bring them near ; yea, let them take counsel together : who hath declared this from ancient time ? Who hath told it from that time Have not I the Lord And there is no God else beside Me ; a just God and a Saviour ; there is none beside Me. Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth : for I Am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by Myself, the Word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Romans 14:11 ....... For it is written, as I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God. Philippians 2:8-11 ....... And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name : That at the name of Jesus, every knee should bow, of the things in heaven, and things in earth and things under the earth ; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Psalms 27:1 ....... The Lord is My Light and my salvation . Exodus 17:6 ....... Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the Rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the Rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. and Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel. 1st. Corinthians 10:4 ....... And did all drink the same spiritual drink : For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them : and that Rock was Christ. John 7:37-39 ....... In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying : If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on Me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of Living Water. But this spake He of the Spirit, which they that believe on Him should receive : for the Holy Ghost was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified. 11 Samuel 22:32 ....... For who is God, save the Lord and who is a Rock, save our God ? Genesis 1:3-5 ....... And God said, Let there be Light : and there was Light. And God saw the Light, that it was good : and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the Light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. John 8:12 ....... Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying : I Am the Light of the world : he that followeth Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the Light of life. John 1:4-9 ....... In Him was life ; and the life was the Light of men. And the Light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness , to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Joel 2:28,29 ....... And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh ; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions : and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My Spirit. Matthew 3:11 ....... I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance : but He that cometh after Me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear : He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire. Revelation 21:6,7 ....... And He said unto me, It is done. I Am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the Water of Life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things ; and I will be his God, and he shall be My son. 1st. Timothy 3:16 ....... And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness : God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory... - FrankieLv 61 decade ago
That's because the trinity is a man made pagan doctrine and not scriptural.
If Jesus is God how do you explain these scriptures?
Mark 10:18.. And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mark 15:34.. And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
John 1:18..No man hath seen God at any time.
John 14:28..Jesus said "my Father is greater than I."
John 17:3..Jesus said...And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 20:17..Jesus said "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
1 Corinthians 3:23.. and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.
1 Corinthians 8:6.. But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life.
1 Corinthians 11:3..But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 15:28 ..Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.
2 Corinthians 11:31..The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ%
- Suzanne: YPALv 71 decade ago
I'll answer, but I'd be willing to bet you're not fair-minded enough to read it all.
1) You've quoted Deut. 32:5-6 out of context. Deut. 31:26-27 tells us that Moses was referencing (and prophesying about) the JEWS, not future Christians.
2) All Deut. 32:39 says is that there are no other gods. Notice there is a little "g" there. This actually DISPROVES the Jehovah's Witness position that Jesus is "a god." So you've contradicted yourself.
3) *If* the Apostles were taught by Jesus that He is God, then wouldn't the students of the Apostles reflect this teaching within their own writings? Of course they would! Let's look at one of these early writers. Ignatius lived from AD 30 - 107. Written and oral history PROVES he studied under the Apostle John. He wrote the following:
Epistle to the Romans "... I wish abundance of happiness unblameably, in Jesus Christ our God."
Epistle to the Ephesians: "Our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God, first did and then taught, as Luke testifies, “whose praise is in the Gospel through all the Churches.""
Second Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians: "Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which is blessed in the greatness of God the Father, and perfected; to her who was selected from eternity, that she might be at all times for glory, which abideth, and is unchangeable, and is perfected and chosen in the purpose of truth by the will of the Father of Jesus Christ our God."
Epistle to the Romans, Syriac Version: "I seek the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ."
Epistle to the Antiochans: "The Evangelists, too, when they declared that the one Father was “the only true God,” did not omit what concerned our Lord, but wrote: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.” And concerning the incarnation: “The Word,” says [the Scripture], “became flesh, and dwelt among us.” ... And those very apostles, who said “that there is one God,” said also that “there is one Mediator between God and men.” Nor were they ashamed of the incarnation and the passion."
Another early writer, Justin Martyr, wrote in his famous "Dialogue with Trypho" (he was not a direct student of the Apostles, but a student of a student): "When I had spoken these words, I continued: “Permit me, further, to show you from the book of Exodus how this same One, who is both Angel, and God, and Lord, and man, and who appeared in human form to Abraham and Isaac."
The answer is CLEAR: even if you argue the Gospels don't plainly state Jesus is God in the flesh, the students of the Apostles were taught He is.
I say this with all humility: now is the time for you to repent and truly BELIEVE the Gospel that "God is with us" (Isaiah 7:14).
EDIT: I stand by what I have written. Moses clearly was castigating the Jews for their idol worship and prophesying that it would be a problem for them in the future, too.
And as for your labeling the early church writers as "apostate christians," let me remind you that these men were writing while some of the Apostles were still alive -- yet there is no record that they were rebuked. The fact is this: the Jehovah's Witnesses have deceived you into believing that everyone who disagrees with their theology is "apostate." Your answer proves you are not capable of critically examining what you've been taught. I just proved you're wrong and it kills you, doesn't it?
REPENT. Jesus is coming back soon.
SECOND EDIT: Within your response to "Jesus is God," you made a grievous error: you stated that the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) was used in Matthew's Gospel, because you've supposed that it was written in Hebrew. This is a blatent misrepresentation and, although I think you've stopped reading by now, I can prove it.
The early church writer, Iranaeus (whom I mentioned above as being a student of the Apostle John) wrote the following in his book, "Against Heresies," Scroll 3, Chapter 1:
"Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church."
THIS IS THE EARLIEST RECORDED EXTRA-SCRIPTURAL HISTORY WE HAVE OF THE GOSPEL OF MATTHEW.
At the time, the Jews routinely spoke two languages: Aramaic and Koine Greek. But since Iranaeus states Matthew wrote in the Jews' "own dialect," he's obviously speaking of Aramaic, which is a Semitic language -- unlike Koine Greek.
TODAY, NOT ONE ARAMAIC MANUSCRIPT EXISTS THAT PRE-DATES THE EARLIEST KOINE GREEK MANUSCRIPTS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. And because Aramaic doesn't use the word "Jehovah" NOR does it use the Tetragrammaton ......... you are wrong.
