Why do some Christians believe it is OK for other Christians to lie about being Jewish?

answer: they see the word Jesus and get blinded. Seriously. They think as long as someone believes in Jesus they can call themselves anything they want. Some of them will then take exception to Mormons, JWs, SDAs and Scientologists claiming to be Christian but see nothing wrong with someone saying they're "Messianic Jews" as long as those "Jews" believe in Jesus.

Then you have the bit about the prophecy that all the Jews will return to Israel, convert to Christianity and Jesus will show up again so they work very hard to get Jews to convert and see nothing wrong with deception to do that. All for the greater good, yes?

Paul said he was willing to lie to convert people.

Dishonesty is dishonesty but for some reason, they don't see it as long as it includes "Jews" and Jesus.

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For D1: "But be it so, I did not burden you; nevertheless, being shrewd, I caught you with deceit." 2 Corinthians 12:16

"For thought I be free from all, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Judeans I became as one, that I might gain the Judeans; to them that are under the law, as under the law; To them that are without the law, as without law, that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all, that I might by all means save some." 1 Corinthians 9:19-22

sounds a bit like J4J's and dishonest Messianics. They give misguided Messianics a bad name.

It really is painful to read all these answers - the ones that just don't understand the issue. After all the questions so many of us have answered on here, there are still people who believe (a) that all those calling themselves "Messianic Jews" are in fact born Jews; and (b) that being Jewish is a race. I'll say again, as I've said before - I have no objection to people who really were Jewish before converting to Christianity pointing out their Jewish heritage. But if you call your religion "Messianic JUDAISM", you are claiming a RELIGIOUS term as yours. And it is, for obvious reasons, wrong. John D asks us not to call them Christians and, as you have said, I'm happy to go along with that if someone can devise a sensible name for them. But what John D perhaps doesn't understand is that Judaism is not like Christianity, is not based on faith - it is based on covenant. Hence there is quite a clear 'legalistic' definition of who is a Jew. As far as I have understood Christianity, anyone who professes Jesus to be the messiah and saviour is automatically included as a Christian. Different Christian groups have different requirements on the exact wording of this and how and when individuals are baptised, but claiming belief is the Christian basis of definition. If I'm wrong on this, I'm happy to be corrected.

WELL SAID MARCUS.

And here, for anyone out there who *still* doesn't get it:

The Christians that call themselves ‘messianic jews’ are: Christian.

I can declare myself a Cherokee Indian - does that mean I AM one?

No.

Now if someone gives me a grilled pork chop, and they swear it’s kosher lamb - which is it? It’s pork, of course. The fact that they lie and claim it’s kosher means nothing - it doesn’t alter the OBJECTIVE FACT.

Same logic. Messianics are Christian evangelists - they are not Jewish in any way, shape or form. Not born Jewish. Not converted to Judaism. And sure as hell not practising ANY form of Judaism.

There is no ‘messianic’ sect *within* Judaism - never has been.

As for the 1% of Messianics who started off as Jews - they are now apostates, who are practising Christianity. They don’t get to rock up and REDEFINE Judaism to now include worshipping Christ.

Messianic = Christians. The entire movement began with the intent of converting Jews to Christianity. For crying out loud - the biggest Messianic group, ‘jews4jesus’ was founded by an ORDAINED BAPTIST MINISTER.

Abridged from: "Holy Terror" by Flo Conway and Jim Seigelman

In a document entitled "What Evangelical Christians Should Know About ‘MESSIANIC JEWS’, Martin Meyer, founder of ’jewsforjesus’, again reveals his goal:

‘We define ourselves as evangelical fundamentalists and we seek the cooperation of individuals and Christian bodies meeting this description…We believe in affiliation with a local church and being accountable to the church for service and discipline. We will uphold the local church wherever we can.

‘We consider ourselves an arm of the local church. We are primarily evangelists and we are always mindful that we should not usurp the authority of the local pastor. As we win and disciple (convert) Jewish people, we urge them to take their place in a local evangelical church or establish a congregation and call their own minister. Our duty is to aid the church at large and we work as an arm of that body to gather in the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.'

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DEVOTED - since when it is 'judgemental' to correct YOUR LIES about OUR religion?

And to the others:

So what if Jesus was Jewish? Woody Allen is a Jew - does that mean if I as a Jew start to worship him and declare him messiah, that these new beliefs are 'jewish'?

Answer: NO.

And what so MANY people here just keep ignoring:

We are NOT talking about some tiny grouup of Christians. The MESSIANIC movement was *specifically* started to CONVERT JEWS.

They used to call themselves 'hebrew christians'. But it didn't work - no Jews believed that they were 'jewish'. So they rebranded and hey presto! suddenly there are thousands of 'messianic jews' banging on about how 'we can be christian and jewish at the same time'.

Well, no, they can't and since they were NEVER Jewish, they are lying.

A Jew that adopts Christian beliefs and rituals = A CHRISTIAN

Just as a Christian that converts to Judaism = A JEW

A Jew that becomes a Muslim = a Muslim

- they don't become a 'jew for mohammed'.

A person doesn't 'stay' Jewish once they convert to another faith. This is not rocket science, guys.

I think many truly are ignorant and do not understand. I mean, they truly don't understand that these people ARE lying, and its not just some sort of inter-denominational thing similar to perhaps their own church possibly calling jehovas witnesses not christian or something.

not to mention it seems an increasingly large segment of christians are taught in church that they are "spiritual" Jews or some such nonsense that basically encourages the lies that Judaism is defined primarily by heritage, which leads them to believe that these people are legitimate.

>"You do realize that Jesus was a Jew, right?"<

yes. and following a man, even Jesus, is one of the most un-Jewish things that a person could do.

>"If someone follows Judaism and also believes that Jesus is the Messiah prophesied by Judaism, what is that to you?"<

that is the same as a christian who insists they are as christian as you, in their following of Jesus the Devil.

its impossible for a person to follow Judaism and believe that Jesus was the messiah. it is an empirical fact that Jesus did not fulfill the prophecys of the Messiah of Judaism.

there is not a single person who follows Judaism and believes Jesus is the messiah.

just as there is not a single person who is Christian, and believes Jesus is the Devil.

>"A Jew who realizes Jesus is the messiah is a Jew who realized Jesus is the Messiah."<

no. they are a Christian who was once Jewish, to come to believe in Jesus means ceasing to be Jewish.

>"Could it be what bothers you is Jews realizing their messiah is who Christians have been saying it is?"<

nope. because I can look at the news... or heck. out the WINDOW and see absolute proof the messiah I am waiting for, has not yet arrived.

I am a spiritual Christian. I believe Jesus never existed. However, I live in a Christian dominated county & my holy scriptures are translated & used by Christians in their covenant with God.

Therefore I who does not believe Jesus existed -- am a full Christian.

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Gotta agree. It's like being kind to others stops at the door of their religion. Where hurting others takes over & they can't even here the cries. It truely reflects horribly on Christianity that their isn't more easy outcry at how they sabatage the name of "Judaism".

Suckles

You've had a very, very unusual experience (posted on the internet world). As a Jew i've only met a tiny number of these out of these raised jewish whole collection that comes to OUR syngoague to pray their THEIR God beliefs. (How could Christians feel if Jews came to deny Jesus in their churches?) Anyway, of the ones of met they weren't part of this group & they had internal anger issues with their parents. They were just moving away from Judaism, but needed to beat it up somehow.

Just to add at bit or Frau's excellent answer (and in reference to an earlier question), atheistic Jews (or even patheistic ones) do not collect in groups and do not actively try to get other Jews to believe as they do, therefore they stand okay with most other mainstream Judaism because they haven't put anyone or anything before God.

As to Sparkles...

She has a point (even if it betrays her prejudices), why would people who accept Christ want to identify as anything other than Christian?

I never met one of these Christians that were claiming to be Jews. I have met lots of Jews that decided that Jesus was the Messiah and then started calling themselves Messianic Jews. Since lots of websites say that only 1% of Messianic Jews were ever Jews I am wondering about that deception.

Guys, you cannot believe Jesus the messiah and be Jewish. It doesn't work.

I don't understand it either. some think they can lie for God to get converts. they failed to understand that lying, no matter what form, no matter for what purpose, is an abomination to God.

Denounce what deception? You do realize that Jesus was a Jew, right?

If someone follows Judaism and also believes that Jesus is the Messiah prophesied by Judaism, what is that to you?

So what, they need Jesus. I do too.